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Transcript of Angela Davis Forum
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: Angela Davis: Organized Struggle Against Racial and Political Repression,” at Ford Hall
Forum.
Recording Date: 05 October 1975
Item Information: Angela Davis: Organized Struggle Against Racial and Political Repression,”
at Ford Hall Forum. Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013 (MS113.3.1, item 0014) Moakley
Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: audio recording and transcript available at http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Copyright Information: Copyright © 1975 Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Summary:
Transcription of a Ford Hall Forum that featured political activist Angela Davis discussing the
work of political organizations, such as the Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression, to
combat the systemic racial oppression of African Americans in the United States. She details the
failings of capitalism and the perceived rise of fascism in the US. Davis also discusses Boston’s
racial struggles including the crisis surrounding the desegregation of its public schools.
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Transcript Begins
FRANK FITZMORRIS: From Boston, the Eastern Public Radio Network presents the Ford
Hall Forum, coming to you from Alumni Auditorium at Northeastern University.
Good evening, I'm Frank Fitzmorris, welcoming you to the first meeting of the 68th season of
Ford Hall programs, America's oldest forum of public opinion. Tonight's speaker, activist Angela
Davis.
In just a moment, Forum president Emmanuel Gilbert will introduce Angela Davis for tonight's
talk, titled: “The Organized Struggle Against Racist and Political Repression.”
Now here's Ford Hall president Emmanuel Gilbert.
[00:00:41]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Just before we get into the main segment of our meeting tonight,
there are a couple of minor announcements. I ask you to bear with me. First of all, I'd like to
express the Ford Hall Forum's appreciation to Northeastern University for making this facility
available to us, and for extending themselves in so many ways to make the meetings possible.
Secondly, I have two regulations to hopefully enforce. One is from Northeastern University, and
that's to ask you to please refrain; there'll be no smoking in the hall. It also says no eating, but I
don't see anybody eating, so I think that's no problem at all to worry about.
[00:01:20]
The second announcement is from the Ford Hall Forum. We would like to ask that there be – I
notice a lot of cameras here in the hall – that there be no flash photography at all. [laughter] If
you're going to take pictures, I hope your equipment is such and your skills are such that you can
operate by whatever light is in the hall. It's a matter of difficulty for the speaker if he or she is
constantly interrupted by the flashing of lights. So I ask you please to bear with us on that.
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[00:01:56]
And the second part of that is, there are no tape recordings to be made. The program is broadcast,
as you well know, and so it's public in that extent. But many of our speakers have requested that
recordings not be made by members of the audience because they have other utilization for their
speech, and these get bootlegged and one thing and another and published elsewhere.
So enough for the announcements. Please bear with us.
Now, greetings and good evening, and welcome to the opening session of our 68th annual season
of the Ford Hall Forum. I'm Emmanuel Gilbert, president of the Forum, and your moderator for
this evening.
[00:02:32]
Now, I mentioned this is our 68th consecutive year. This makes us the oldest continuously
operated public forum in the United States. It's been a lean couple of decades for public forums.
They've had all kinds of problems, many have ceased operation; all of them, this one included,
have had great financial problems. And so, many have fallen by the wayside. So in view of that,
this makes our continued existence, and indeed judging by the audience tonight and the record
numbers of members that we have, it's a most unusual bit of longevity for a forum of this kind.
[00:03:14]
I suppose there are many reasons why this is so, but there are two reasons I'd like to call to your
attention tonight because I think they're most pertinent. One is that the Forum assiduously seeks
out different points of view – some popular, some unpopular, occasionally some bland.
[laughter] But we look for different points of view.
Secondly, all of our speakers who come know that they're here to come and express a point of
view. That's the first half of that commitment to the evening. And the second half is that they
must answer questions from the hall and, in effect, they must defend that point of view. These
are two very basic premises under which the Ford Hall Forum operates.
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[00:03:59]
Now, in a free, open, democratic society, these seem very simple, very basic, and not at all
difficult to understand. And yet, because of these two basic reasons for existence, we've had
some troubles, some troubles lasting for a full 68 years, because nobody really subscribes to this
business of freedom of speech and expression when it pertains to the other point of view.
[00:04:25]
You program somebody from the left and immediately the forum is attacked by people from the
right saying they should not have had this forum. You program somebody liberal, you hear from
the conservatives, and vice versa. You program a women's libber and you hear from the male
chauvinists, who don't identify themselves as such, but they complain. [laughter] There is no
point of view I think that we've ever had that hasn't been attacked, or the Forum hasn't been
attacked for presenting it.
Now, we reject this notion of being opposed to letting a valid point of view being heard and
questioned here from the audience. We seek different points of view and we defend their right to
be heard and to present themselves and to be challenged by the audience.
[00:05:15]
Now, our speaker tonight is an example of this pattern. Miss Angela Davis has been called many
things – a radical, a revolutionary, a murderess, a menace to society – all kinds of things. And
we've heard from people who aren't particularly enamored of any of these descriptions and who
have resented the fact that she's here tonight. Of course, we've had many laudatory calls and
letters and people delighted that she's here to grace the Forum platform. But we've also had
memberships canceled, and funds, which would have come to the Forum, diverted because we
offer her this platform.
[00:05:54]
Nevertheless, that's what the Forum is all about. And we're proud to present her here at the Ford
Hall Forum, regardless of what anybody, in this room or outside, thinks of her views. She's here
to express her views and to defend them. You are here in the hall to hear what she has to say and
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to make her defend them if you don't agree with them. As I said, that's what the Forum is all
about. I think this will give us at least another 68 consecutive years.
And so, ladies and gentlemen, here to tell you her views on the organized struggle against racist
and political opposition, and to answer your questions, I'm proud to present Miss Angela Davis.
[applause]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, first of all, I'd like to thank the Ford Hall Forum for giving me this
opportunity to address you this evening. I'm speaking on behalf of many people, black, brown,
red, yellow and white, who are involved in the struggle to end racist and political repression.
And this evening I want to focus my remarks in general around the issue of racism and the issue
of repression.
[00:07:41]
But let me begin by relating an incident which happened on the way from the airport a little
while ago. Those of you who have come out of Logan Airport have probably seen that huge
billboard that says "Welcome to Boston, the Cradle of Liberty." It all began here. [laughter]
Well, as we drove into the city, we passed another sign. This sign said "White Power KKK."
And of course, you don't need me to tell you that Boston is a city with some very serious
problems at this moment. And probably it's no comfort to you to realize that the problems facing
this city are the same as those plaguing urban centers all over the country – high rates of
unemployment, deterioration of public services, unbelievable rates of inflation, and a total
inability of the municipal governments to begin to provide just and humane solutions to these
problems. This is becoming the normal status of cities all over the country these days.
[00:09:16]
And as we sit here this evening, enormous numbers of working class men and women find
themselves demoralized, unemployed, hungry. And what kind of a response do they receive
when they attempt to get help from federal and state officials that we're supposed to be able to
count on to represent our interests? Just recently right here in the state of Massachusetts, there
was a cutback to the tune of about $678 million in the welfare budget; $22 million cut in the area
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of mental health; $6.2 million from youth services and daycare; and a $9.5 million slash in the
area of public health. And all of this is going on when the rate of unemployment in the state is
absolutely incredible. The last figure I saw was more than ten percent. And this is what's
happening all over the country, indeed.
Now, our President has been talking about his better idea. [laughter] What is Mr. Gerald
Secondhand Ford's better idea? To veto one bill after another that would create jobs for working
people, to veto one bill after another that would give increased aid to educational programs that
are so sorely needed by the youth of this country. From no section of this country's leadership
have we seen the attempt to formulate any policy that would be designed to offset the effects of
this economic crisis, the effects of this economic crisis on the masses of people in this country.
[00:11:28]
I think it's important that we understand the significance of this crisis. It's not the same kind of
cyclical crisis that capitalism is supposed to be able to weather eventually. It's a general crisis in
the whole system of capitalism. A general crisis that has features that are permanent and
irreversible rather than just temporary.
Consider the concrete effects of this crisis. Do you know there was recently a study done at the
University of Pennsylvania, I think. It was discovered that among black teenagers, particularly
black teenagers who are female, young black women, the rate of unemployment is something
like 65%. And not only is unemployment 65%, but these are young people who not only cannot
find a job today, but they don't have the prospect of finding a job any time in the near future.
And that means that a whole generation, a whole generation of young black people is growing up
without ever having had the experience of being able to find and hold down a job.
[00:13:11]
Now, in the absence of any significant policies to meet the needs of our people at this time of
crisis, those who are in control of the wealth, the masters of monopoly in this country and their
administrative and legislative assistants in the White House and on Capitol Hill, are devising the
most hideous policies of repression known to humanity since the most terrible and most
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frightening days of Hitler. And when I say that fascism is becoming an increasingly dangerous
menace to the people of this country, I'm not exaggerating. I use the term fascism after much
consideration.
[00:14:21]
Policies are developed by ruling circles in this country which have racism as their core and the
dissolution of the unity of working people as their intent. These policies are attempting to not
only impose the burden of this crisis on the shoulders of working people, and particularly black
people and other people of color, but they attempt to destroy the very unity that's necessary in
order to fight back against those policies, against this crisis, this crisis which is created by the
gluttony of monopoly for ever-increasing profits – a gluttony that was denied satisfaction by the
people of Vietnam, the people of Mozambique and Angola, the people of Guinea Bissau, and a
gluttony which has been bitterly fought in other countries throughout Africa, throughout Asia,
throughout Latin America.
What is happening is that this greed for profits – and I don't think any one of us could deny that
the basic motivation of the capitalist system is profits – this greed for profits is being turned
upon, even more severely, the working class of this country as it is being increasingly denied
abroad. I think that we must see the recent incidence of violence and racist hysteria here in this
city and other cities across the country surrounding the use of busing to desegregate the school
system within the context of what is being– of the defeats that are being inflicted upon the
capitalist system throughout the world.
[00:17:00]
We have got to see the issue of busing as an instrument through which the ultra right in this
country is hoping to gain a mass political base, a base that could very well lay the groundwork
for fascism. You see, all this shouting about the rights of parents to send their kids to any school
they choose cannot hide the fact that the hysteria surrounding these issues was whipped up by an
organization that calls itself, what is it, ROAR? And ROAR apparently is a coalition of the Nazi
Party, the Ku Klux Klan, the John Birch Society. And it enjoys the active support of the most
notorious racist in this country George Wallace.
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[00:18:04]
Now, oftentimes I think we fail to understand the dynamics of what is going on in that fight
against school desegregation. We fail to see the incredibly profound racism that is at the core, not
so much in the attitudes of those people who are going out and doing all of that dirty business,
but what is being encouraged by the ruling class in this country. Just recently I was reading a
book, re-reading a book by W.E.B. Du Bois, one of the greatest scholars this country has known.
The book was written in 1935. It's called Black Reconstruction. And in one section he was
attempting to understand what all of those lynch mobs were about. And at that time, of course,
lynching was taking place at an extremely rapid pace all over the South; and not only in the
South, but in places like Pennsylvania as well.
He describes the lynch mobs in a very vivid and, I think, a very revealing manner. And I think
we can learn a lesson about what's happening here in this city, and what's happening in
Louisville, from the words of Dr. Du Bois:
"Before the wide eyes of the mob is ever the shape of fear. Back of the writhing, yelling, crueleyed demons who break, destroy, maim and lynch and burn at the stake, is a knot, large or small,
of normal human beings, and these human beings at heart are desperately afraid of something. Of
what? Of many things, but usually of losing their jobs, being declassed, degraded, or actually
disgraced; of losing their hopes, their savings, their plans for their children; of the actual pangs of
hunger, of dirt, of crime. And of all this, most ubiquitous in modern industrial society is that fear
of unemployment. It is its nucleus of ordinary men that continually gives the mob its initial and
awful impetus. Around this nucleus, to be sure, gather snowball-like all manner of flotsam, filth
and human garbage, and every lewdness of alcohol and current fashion. But all this is the
horrible covering of this inner nucleus of fear."
[00:21:33]
And I think that many of those people who have participated in those demonstrations organized
by ROAR truly fit the description that W.E.B. Du Bois has given of those participants in the
lynch mobs of the first part of this century. They are indeed afraid. Many of them are
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unemployed. Many of them don't know where the money is coming to pay the rent at the end of
the month. Many of them go into a supermarket and can't afford to buy food for decent meals to
satisfy their children. And I think that the government of this country and those who wield
economic power in this country understand that, understand that. And therefore, they do
everything within their power, both subtly and in a blatant manner, to encourage these poor
people to explode their frustration in the faces of young black children who have only tried to get
a decent education. They understand that if these white working class people who are victims of
this crisis that we are all experiencing today are brought to a point where they will focus their
frustrations, their discontent against black people, then they'll forget all about the fact that they
really should be struggling against the Rockefellers and against the Hughes, against the
monopolies of this country. They should be fighting for their jobs. They should be fighting not
against black children, but for a decent education for their children and black children alike.
[applause]
[00:23:59]
I don't feel that it is accidental that at this point in the history of this country we are seeing these
outbreaks and explosions in Boston, that we're seeing them in Louisville and in California. In the
state of California, where I'm living at this moment, white people can get together and run out of
town every single black person. This happened in a place called Taft, California, several months
ago. All the black people who lived and studied in that city were run out.
[00:24:45]
It's no accident that you read in the dailies in this country full-page spreads on the Ku Klux Klan
that describe them as if the initials KKK stood for Kindly Knitting Klub, or something like that.
A number of months ago I read an article in the San Francisco Chronicle entitled, "Women's
Liberation in the Ku Klux Klan." [laughter] And that's funny, but at the same time it's very
frightening. Why is it frightening? Because when you see an organization, a racist, reactionary,
fascist organization such as that, legitimized to a certain extent by the mass media, that makes it
much more palatable, not only to those people who should be struggling against racism, but to
potential converts. And in a sense, it's an open invitation to white people to join the Ku Klux
Klan. I'm sure there are many white people who read those articles who say, Well, you know, if
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the Chronicle or if the New York Times can write such a sympathetic account, then they can't be
that bad. So it wouldn't be such a disgrace to associate myself with the Ku Klux Klan.
[00:26:17]
And I think that if you were able to examine the membership list of the KKK, you would
probably discover that it is rapidly increasing, and probably Boston is the place which can claim
the largest membership in the Ku Klux Klan at this moment, this cradle of liberty. This is where
it all began.
I think that white people must be aware of the way in which racism historically, and especially
today, is not only used as an instrument with which to oppress and continue to hold in bondage
millions of people of color in this country, but it's an instrument that's used against the masses of
white people as well. It's an instrument which is used by the ruling circles in this country to
confuse and confound and divide and prevent the understanding on the part of the masses of
white people in this country that their role is to stand side by side with black people and Puerto
Ricans and Chicanos, Asians, Native American Indians, and fight against an enemy which
oppresses all of us.
[00:28:14]
There are many faces in which this fascist pattern is revealing itself today. It's revealing itself in
ways that often aren't perceived by us as such. And I think that it's important to understand that
fascism doesn't usher itself onto the scene with a blare of trumpets. It insinuates itself slowly,
sometimes imperceptibly. It insinuates itself into our lives with the erosions of one democratic
right after another.
[00:29:07]
And let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. How many of you recognize the
name San Quentin Six? Are there any of you present this evening who know what I'm referring
to when I say the San Quentin Six? Have you been following the course of the trial? I don't
know, I haven't been able to read the newspapers in the Boston area. Has the trial been covered?
Well, of course, for those of you who don't know about the San Quentin Six, this is the trial of
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six black and Latino prisoners which stems from the killing, the murder of George Jackson. And
when I say murder, I'm talking about something that will definitely be proved beyond a
reasonable doubt during the course of this trial.
[00:30:20]
The San Quentin Six are charged with a whole string of crimes, clearly, in my opinion, as a
result of the efforts of the California prison authorities to cover up their responsibility for, and
complicity in the murder of George Jackson. The conditions under which this trial is taking place
are absolutely incredible. And so incredible that when you enter that courtroom, you have the
impression of experiencing a nightmare, and you think that this must be Germany in 1933 and
not the United States of America on the verge of celebrating its Bicentennial.
[00:31:22]
Let me try to describe for you what it is like to attend the trial of six black and Latino men who
were supposed to be presumed innocent. And let me point out, too, that this trial is being held in
the very same courtroom in Marin County where I attended many hearings during the time I was
in jail a number of years ago. The courtroom looks a little bit different now though.
[00:31:51]
In order to get into that trial – and it's supposed to be a public trial – you must go through first
one metal detector. And then you walk over to a podium like this and a policeman stands behind
it and you give him your driver's license. He copies your name and your address, and all of the
information. Then you pose for a police photographer who takes your picture, like you're being
booked into the local county jail. After that, you're frisked by hand, and if you happen to have a
natural, like mine for example, a matron, in an extremely degrading manner, attempts to run her
fingers through your hair. Then you go through another metal detector. Now you have to do all
of this just to get into the courtroom!
Once you get into those courtroom, you discover that the courtroom is divided in half by a
bulletproof shield, a bulletproof wall, plexiglass shield. The spectators are on one side; the
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participants in the trial are on the either side – the judge, the jury, the defendants and the lawyers.
Armed guards stand along the walls of the courtroom.
[00:33:24]
And if this were not already enough, when you look at the defendants, at the brothers, you
discover that they are draped in chains – chains around their waist, their wrists chained to their
waist, their feet are shackled to the floor. And if you get a glimpse of them being brought into the
courtroom, they're brought in by San Quentin guards on leashes, neck cuffs, chains attached to
the neck cuffs.
[00:34:00]
How is it possible? How it is possible for any one of those twelve jurors to feel that someone
must already think they're guilty. Someone must think they're violent. Someone must think
they're dangerous. Otherwise all of this paraphernalia wouldn't be necessary. How can they
possibly receive a fair trial under those conditions?
It's a very strange feeling. It's hard to even convey to you what this is all about. The bulletproof
shield is made out of plexiglass, as I pointed out. It's dark and murky, and it's very thick, so it
tends to distort the faces of the people on the other side.
Oh, I'm sorry. Is everyone able to hear me?
[00:35:08]
As I was saying, the plexiglass tends to distort the faces of the people on the other side. And you
sit there and you watch this judge, who incidentally was Ronald Reagan's financial campaign
manager and was appointed by him afterwards. And you see this man, who has done everything
within his power to set the stage for a conviction of the San Quentin Six. You see him screaming
something out at the lawyers and he moves and his face becomes all distorted and grotesque.
And you really feel that this is a nightmare; it can't possibly be happening.
[00:35:50]
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But it is happening. And it's important for all of us to understand what that means for our lives.
It's not only that the rights of six black and Latino men are being violated in a grotesque and
fascist manner. It's that our rights are also being violated. If they can try these people under those
conditions, that means that any one of us might be charged one day and might be tried under
those conditions, and a conviction would be ensured, you see.
It's very important for us to understand the relationship between the attack on the rights of those
people who are suffering most under the repression that has revealed itself all over the country.
And the potential effect it will have on you and your responsibility to get involved in the
struggle, to push it back before it engulfs all of us.
[00:36:59]
I get sometimes very disturbed and very upset when I don't see masses of people fighting back
against the kind of open and blatant manifestation of repression. I get upset because I know that
there was a time when I was behind those walls and when I realized that my conviction would
also be ensured, it would be guaranteed if large numbers of people, black people, white people,
Puerto Ricans, Chicanos, Asians, Indians, working people, students, ministers, women activists,
political activists, if people in general did not respond and fight back, not only because of what
was happening to me, but what might happen to them tomorrow.
[00:38:06]
In the state of North Carolina, which is probably the most repressive state in this country today,
there are scores of political activists behind walls. There are high school students who are in
prison facing 20-year, 40-year terms because they struggled for black studies programs,
struggled to have the birthday of Martin Luther King celebrated on their high school campuses.
I'm not exaggerating, I'm not exaggerating. Reverend Ben Chavis and his nine co-defendants,
eight black men who were high school students in 1971 and a white woman who was an activist
in the women's movement, they are facing terms of from 10 to 34 years as a result of the
struggles they waged against the racist policies of the school system in North Carolina.
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And I hope that many of you have already heard about the case of Reverend Ben Chavis and the
Wilmington Ten. Because you see, if they can imprison a minister, if they can put a minister in
prison for the rest of his life as a result of his efforts to translate his beliefs, his religious beliefs
into practice, then what can they do to those of us who are talking about organizing masses of
people to build a revolutionary movement so that we can usher into being a society that truly will
respond to the needs and reflect the dreams and aspirations, not of a few greedy capitalists, but of
the masses of people in this country.
[00:40:12]
I think that all of us have a responsibility to participate in this struggle to turn back this fascist
monster that's growing and growing every day. We have to fight against the passage of Senate
Bill 1, which is literally a blueprint for fascism, literally. And I would urge all of you to try to
find out about this bill and read what its provisions are – the death penalty for treason; the
imprisonment of people who advocate the overthrow of the government, of the United States of
America; the refusal to permit demonstrations within sight or sound of a courthouse. All kinds of
provisions are included in this Senate bill.
[00:41:33]
We must struggle, I think, to free the woman, the Puerto Rican woman who is not only the
longest held political prisoner, along with her comrades, in this country, but in the entire Western
hemisphere. Lolita Lebrón has been in prison for over 20 years as a result of her determination to
fight the colonial subjugation of her people in Puerto Rico by the United States government. She
has been offered parole many times, but the conditions of that parole are that she not participate
in any activities, nor associate with any people involved in the movement for Puerto Rican
independence.
[00:42:35]
We must struggle to free a young black man in Florida, who has been sentenced to death as a
result of a frame-up rape charge. And I mention this because I think that it's very important for us
to understand that the victory that was won by Sister Joan Little as a result of the widespread
support she received all over this country must also extend to black men who are the victims of
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the same kind of racism that was inflicted on Joan Little when she was raped by a racist jailer.
You see, historically the use of the rape charge has been used in the very same racist manner
against black men as the rape of black women has been interwoven into the history of our people
in this country.
Perhaps you remember the Scottsboro Boys. Perhaps you remember Emmett Till, who was found
at the bottom of the Tallahatchie River because he had been accused of smiling at a white
woman; a 14-year-old black boy from Chicago who went to Mississippi to visit his relatives.
[00:44:14]
There's a man by Delbert Tibbs who was recently sentenced to death in Florida as a result of a
frame-up rape charge in which he was accused by a young white woman of having raped her and
having killed her companion. To just give you an idea of the incredible inconsistencies in that
case which are, in my opinion, proof beyond any doubt that he's innocent, she described her
attacker at first as a dark-skinned man with pock marks on his face. Delbert Tibbs is very lightskinned, he has a very clear complexion. But she took the stand during the trial and said that his
complexion had lightened several shades since the time she had seen him and had been raped by
him. I mean, I could go on and on; he wasn't anywhere near the incident. He was 275 miles away
when it happened. He was traveling through Florida. He's a novelist and he was trying to gather
material for a novel about the South and was hitchhiking and happened to be picked up by the
police. He was an unknown black man and the easiest victim, the easiest scapegoat for that racist
hysteria that was generated as a result of this woman's contentions that she had been raped.
[00:45:52]
I don't want to spend very much more time speaking because I know that many of you
undoubtedly have questions that you'd like to ask and it's getting late. So let me conclude with
first a poem and then a quotation from a great figure of black history in this country. The poem
was written by Brother Delbert Tibbs, recently, as he sits on death row in Florida. And it's called
"A Poem."
[00:46:44]
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I need a poem, I need a poem, a master poem.
Once and for all I need a poem to destroy poetry and break these iron bars.
A poem to make stars weep, need a poem, a poem
for troubling the sleep of the chained,
Some words and strikes of magic to be heard through all the world.
[00:47:24]
I hope there are those of you who will leave this evening determined that we, the people of this
country, united and strong, can truly become those strikes of magic that Brother Tibbs is seeking.
If we are truly, honestly, sincerely interested in defending our rights and our liberties, our lives,
and the lives of those who at this point in the history of this country are suffering for all of us,
those who are doing all of the suffering – the Delbert Tibbs, the Wilmington Ten, the San
Quentin Six, the Lolita Lebróns – then we must recognize that we must struggle.
[00:48:23]
As Frederick Douglass said in 1857, "If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who
profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation want crops without plowing up the ground.
They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its
many waters. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out
just what any people will quietly submit to. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to
and you will have found the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon
them, and these will until they are resisted with either words or blows or with both."
Thank you. [applause]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Thank you very much, Miss Davis. And now, we will enter the
second portion of our program, the questions from the floor. For the benefit of those of you who
are here for the first time, may I ask that you raise your hand if you have a question and I will
acknowledge them. I'll try and go around the room and give some kind of a distribution to the
questioners. And then, direct your question, please, to me. I will repeat them so it can be picked
up by the radio microphone, and then Miss Davis will answer the questions.
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Let's start on this side of the room first. Yes, sir? Will you please stand? No, the gentleman in the
back there, would you please stand?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Miss Davis, if the actions of ROAR in Boston are simply
manifestations, as you claim, of the ruling circles of the United States, how then would you
explain the determined effort of the government at the city, state and federal level through their
police power to ensure the safety of schoolchildren in Boston?
[00:51:08]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The gentleman asked if you would attempt to explain the combined
efforts of city and state marshals to ensure the safety of the children and the desegregation
problem if, as you claim, the actions of ROAR are behind it all and not particularly meaningful.
[00:51:31]
ANGELA DAVIS: I remember an incident which took place last year having to do with the
President of the United States of America. At the time that the school desegregation was ordered,
there were appeals that were directly made to Mr. Ford to immediately send federal troops to
guarantee the safety of the schoolchildren who would be attending the newly desegregated
schools. At that time, Mr. Ford made a statement on national television before millions of people
in this country. He made a statement to the effect that he disagreed with the court decision. Do
you remember that? He said he disagreed with the decision, the order with respect to
desegregation. And so what if he disagreed with it? Anyone who has read a civics book, even a
fourth grade student knows that the way in which the government in this country is supposed to
function has to do with the division powers, and that the executive has no right to overrule
decisions of the judiciary, but, rather, is supposed to execute those decisions.
[00:53:11]
Now, not only did he not order that troops, federal troops be brought in– and see, I think that
could have headed off the whole thing before it even exploded, you see. But by making the
statement that he disagreed with the court decision, he was saying "right on" to all of those
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reactionary and racist forces that tried to whip up this hysteria in Boston. And I think that
President Ford's statement, more than anything else in this country, is what was responsible for
all of that racist violence here in Boston. [applause]
[00:53:58]
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Miss Davis, I'm confused about what you're talking about, the main
issues here tonight. You came here to talk about racism and oppression. Along in your speaking
several times you linked capitalism with fascism. Now I'm a student, and I seek truth, and I seek
knowledge. I've always been caught and I've always learned through my own experiences–
EMMANUEL GILBERT: What is the question, please? [laughter]
AUDIENCE QUESTION: How is capitalism, which is known as a free market, free economy,
means individual rights, i.e.; and fascism, which is known under the facade of individual
freedom but is controlled by one controlling factor – take one instance, Italy–
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Will you please ask the question?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: yes. I'm confused as to how you link capitalism and fascism
together. It seems to be a contradiction in terms.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The gentleman asked how you link capitalism and fascism together
in your talk.
[00:54:53]
ANGELA DAVIS: Maybe next week he would like to come and deliver a lecture here.
[laughter] But let me seriously try to respond to that question. First of all, I think that it's very
clear that capitalism is not an economy-based freedom or liberty. Are you listening to me? You
don't appear to want to even hear the answer.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: [inaudible] because all throughout the history of man, capitalism–
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ANGELA DAVIS: All right, he says that I've already turned him off. I am trying to explain to
you.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: You've had your question. Now let her answer.
[00:55:43]
ANGELA DAVIS: First of all, capitalism may indeed be a system which allows certain people
certain liberties and certain freedoms. But I think that unfortunately those people constitute the
very smallest minority in this country. They constitute the Rockefellers, the Duponts, the
Hughes, the corporations. I could name them probably if had about five minutes, less than that, I
could name all of those corporations that control the vast majority of the wealth in this country.
[00:56:20]
Now, what does it mean in general for working people? They say that working people are free.
That's true, they're free to get a job and make some money. But what actually happens? What are
the inner dynamics of exploitation? See, because when you talk about capitalism as an
exploitative system, that is not, in my opinion, a moral judgment about capitalism, it's a
descriptive term. And it's very interesting how, with the development historically of capitalism,
the whole character of the labor of working people underwent a transformation. If you are a
worker and you go and work on the assembly line at an auto plant, for example, you aren't paid
for the work that you do. You aren't paid for the work that you do. You aren't paid for building
those cars. You are paid for your ability to work. You're paid for your labor power. And those of
you who have studied Marx Das Kapital will understand that distinction.
[00:57:41]
You're paid by the capitalist so that you will be able to come back and work the next day. How is
it that all of these thousands, billions and billions of dollars of profit would come about if it
didn't have something to do– I mean, Rockefeller, with all of the money that he has, has he ever
done an honest day's work in his life? He sits in a– who does all of that work? It has to be
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coming from somewhere. And working people simply are not compensated for what they
produce. Working people are paid just enough to survive.
[00:58:24]
Marx makes that very clear when he says that instead of being paid for their labor, instead of
being paid for what they produce, they are paid for their labor power, their ability to work. And
that means that the capitalist owes the worker – and these are written in to the dynamics of
capitalism – only enough in order for that worker and his or her family to survive.
[00:58:51]
Now, going on to the question – and I'm not going to speak very much longer – the question of
the relationship of fascism and capitalism. You see, I think that fascism is a reaction, a response
of a capitalist ruling class. When the drive for profit becomes so severe that the rights of people,
not only in terms of their economic rights, must be severely violated, but they must be prevented
from struggling, prevented from organizing for movements for their freedom.
And if you look at what's happening across the globe, capitalism is being rejected more and more
and more by ever-greater masses of people in this world. First of all, you have to consider that
one-third of the people, one-third of the people who inhabit this globe live and are building
socialist societies. That's one third; I mean, that's one-third of all the people in the world. And
then if you look at Africa, if you look at Asia, if you look at Latin America, you discover that
those countries that have received, and fought for, achieved their independence recently have
understood there's no way in the world that they're going to be able to respond to the needs of the
people of their country if they continue to adhere to the imperialism, if they continue to be a part
of the imperialist order, if they continue to try to talk about building capitalism. They understand
that capitalism is exploitative inherently. And it only is able to function in the interest of a very
small minority of people.
[01:01:00]
What did the people of Guinea Bissau do when they proclaimed their independence? They said
they were going to build a socialist society. What were the people of Vietnam fighting about?
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They were fighting about their right to build socialism. What was the struggle in Chile all about?
And why did not only the fascists inside Chile respond so violently and with the bloodiest coup
of this recent period? Why did people like Kissinger join them? Why did ITT join them? Why
did the Pentagon join them? Because they understood, first of all, those people who voted to
enter upon a socialist revolutionary process understood what they wanted. They said, for
example, We don't believe that Kennecott Copper and Anaconda Copper have the right to come
here and force us to slave in these mines and then take the profits that we make for them and put
it in their pockets 3000 miles away. They said that they felt they had the right to utilize the
products of their labor, the resources of their land in order to satisfy their needs to build schools,
to build housing, to have free medical care. I mean, those kinds of basic things.
[01:02:28]
Capitalism can't do it because it's not profitable. It's not profitable to have free childcare centers.
Nobody makes any money off of free childcare centers. That's why you don't see this society
responding to the needs of its people. It's not profitable to have free healthcare for everyone. It's
not profitable to have free education.
One more point. And that point is that at a time when it becomes increasingly difficult for
capitalism to function smoothly as a system, to function while putatively respecting the
democratic rights of the citizens of the country in question, at this particular point in the history
of capitalism, it is not possible. Because working people are more and more conscious; black
people, people of color are more and more conscious of the need to struggle for liberation. And
then the response, the desperate response becomes a fascist response. And that is the fascist
kernel that I think exists in this country today in which we must struggle against if we do not
want it to grow like a cancer and mushroom into a full-blown capitalist system.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: I would suggest to the audience that they attempt to confuse our
speaker by keeping their questions clear, curt and concise. She will no doubt retaliate by making
her responses tight and terse and taut. [laughter] Okay, from the center of the room. Yes, miss.
[01:04:25]
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AUDIENCE QUESTION: You speak as if there is a conspiracy, a definite, constructed
conspiracy, which is bad. This consists of the fractious racists. How does your position differ
from the claims made on the left that there is a conspiracy? What proof do you have that there is
a real conspiracy any more so than the ones on the left say there is a communist conspiracy?
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The questioner makes the point that the left or the right, they both
contend they're a conspiracy. How do you document your claims?
[01:05:03]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, let me ask you something. Did you by any chance see the Watergate
hearings? [laughter/applause] Have you by any chance been following the Senate select hearings
on the intelligence community? Have you by any chance heard that not too long ago there was a
test in the subways of New York City to determine just how swiftly and effectively it would be
possible to saturate the subway system of New York City with poison gas? Yeah, didn't you all–
you mean that in this cradle of liberty the newspaper didn't report that this was one of the results
of one of the hearings that took place? Well, I don't think I have to go any further. I could give
you many, many, many, many more examples of that conspiracy. But I don't think I need to go
any further. Do I?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: No!
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Miss Davis, can I usurp a questioner's prerogative and ask, if this is
proof, if this capitalist press, which obviously must be suspect, reports it, what proof is that of
any fact? [laughter/applause]
[01:06:37]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, I'm not sure whether that's meant to be a philosophical question as to
how we go about obtaining our knowledge about reality. But I think that we can be sure that
what we have learned so far is probably not the truth, in the sense that it's just the tip of an
iceberg. I think we can be sure that the problems with having to rely on the capitalist press have
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to do with their covering up many of the things that we need to know in order to really
understand what is happening in this country. And they've tried to cover it up.
[01:07:34]
I can remember, a number of years ago, we used to say there was a conspiracy against the Black
Panther Party because we thought that we could see the evidence in those attacks that took place
in city after city after city, places where Mark Clark and Fred Hampton were murdered as they
lay sleeping in their beds and a situation was created so that it would appear as if they had been
the ones to do the shooting and the police had been defending themselves. And we said that was
a conspiracy because the facts pointed to that. It's only now, of course, a number of years later
that, as a result of an investigation, it has come out that there was indeed a conspiracy that was
led by J. Edgar Hoover and that involved police departments all over this country to destroy the
Black Panther Party. [applause]
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I've noticed a movement from Boston and they go by the name of
Tactical Police [Force]. I asked somebody what they were about and someone told me they were
here to help desegregate the schools. Now, that answer didn't make too much sense to me. I'd
like to know what you think about that.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The Tactical Police allege that they're here to help the youngsters
get to school, to desegregate the schools. That answer didn't make much sense. She asked you to
comment on that aspect.
[01:08:57]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, you see, I mentioned, I think, during the course of my remarks that
there were many, many more examples of what I called an increasingly fascist pattern in this
country. And one of them is the proliferation of special counterinsurgency forces and police
departments all across the country. The tactical police incidentally in police departments
throughout the country have been trained by the FBI. In California, there was recently – and we
read this in the bourgeois press – that the FBI came out and trained special sectors of the police
departments of Los Angeles, San Francisco, and a lot of small towns in the Bay Area.
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[01:09:54]
The special weapons and tactical squad– you all probably see that TV program that's called
SWAT. You know, most of you've seen that, haven't you? Well, see, I was incidentally
personally present at the debut of SWAT in Los Angeles. Do you know when that took place,
when they first were utilized by the police department? To attack the Black Panther Party. They
maintain that they had a warrant to deliver to a member of the Black Panther Party and they
came to deliver this warrant with the force of 600 policemen, led by the SWAT squad. They had
a helicopter. They had dynamite. They had machine guns. They had bulletproof vests. This was
in order to deliver a warrant. And they proceeded to destroy the offices and to wound –
fortunately no one was killed – many of the people who were inside.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I don't think it's necessary to defend the need for revolution. The
question is, when's the next time you're going to be in Boston and be in Roxbury where you don't
have to defend revolution and you don't have to have questions asked about the need. [applause]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The gentleman asks, when are you going to be in Boston next and
in Roxbury with a less hostile audience?
[01:11:40]
ANGELA DAVIS: I think the point that the brother makes is very important. Because black
people and people of color in this country know that something has to be done. They know that
we can't live this way very much longer. When you walk in the streets of Harlem on a
Wednesday afternoon and you see the streets just as crowded as they would be on a Sunday
afternoon because all of those people are not able to get work, you know that something has to
change. And when you've experienced hundreds of years of racism in this country, and when you
know that the only way we've survived, the only way we've made it to where we are now is
through struggle. Like Frederick Douglass said in 1837, that's the only way we've been able to
make it this far.
[01:12:39]
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I think though, to further answer, I'm probably going to be in Boston some time soon. This is the
first trip I've made in about a year, but I probably will be back. And you can be sure that I will
visit with my sisters and brothers in Roxbury. I think it's important for white people in this
country to understand that if they stand idly by while black people, people of color are maimed
and murdered and subjugated to death, then it's going to happen to them as well. [applause]
Let me remind you of that statement that was made by that Protestant theologian who emerged
after the defeat of fascism, what did he say? He said, "First they came for the communists, but I
wasn't a communist, so I did nothing. And then they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew, so I
did nothing. Then they came for the trade unionists, but I wasn't a trade unionist, so I did
nothing." He went all the way down the line and he said, "And finally they came for me. And
when I looked around, there was nobody left to help." [applause]
AUDIENCE QUESTION: In connection with your feeling that fascism has insidious ways of
insinuating itself among us, I wonder if you could comment on the increasing romanticism of
organized crime, particularly among the middle class.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Could you comment on the increased popularity or fascination held
by organized crime, particularly among the middle class?
ANGELA DAVIS: I think that such movies as The Godfather are probably descriptive not only
of organized crime, but of the ruling class in this country. I mean, crime has always been a part
of the ruling class.
[01:15:07]
Let me just give you an example. All of these illegal contributions that were made by these
corporations, wasn't that crime? Not only crime in the sense of making illegal contributions and
thus buying the presidency, but crime in the sense of an attack on the democratic rights and
liberties of all the people in this country. Richard Nixon wasn't elected by a mandate. His
presidency was bought for him.
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[01:15:49]
And then what happens? It's important to continue down the line and ask yourself what happens
to these criminals, these ruling class criminals. Do they go to prison? I've been in three jails and I
never saw a person who wasn't poor, regardless of what color they were. Those ruling class
criminals who do end up going to jail, well, they go to these country club prisons like
Allenwood, where they can play golf and play tennis and ride horses.
But you see, it's the class question, that's the point. It's the class question, and working class
people are the ones who are the victims, always.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Would you care to comment on a new system that seems to be
evolving, where the worker would own, participate in the direct management of a corporation or
a company, would take over the assets of a company and would therefore avoid changing the
bureaucracy in a fascist democracy for the bureaucracy that has existed in a communist state. It
would be like going from somebody who, quote, knew what was good for us in a democracy to
somebody in communism. Would you please comment on the direct ownership of assets by the
individuals employed by a firm.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The question has to do with the emerging partner of direct
ownership of the assets of a corporation by the workers. Would you comment on what this
trend's implications happen to be?
[01:17:47]
ANGELA DAVIS: I'm not sure whether I understood the other part of the question. And I don't
know whether or not you're posing that as an alternative to socialism. But first of all, I think that
it is important for working people to fight for gains in all areas, on all levels. It's important for
black people, people of color to struggle around all of the manifestations of racism and to
attempt to win victories, knowing of course, realizing that the victories that we win today will be
significant in the last analysis only to the extent that they assist us in moving toward a final
victory which, in my opinion, must be a revolutionary victory, which must mean the overturning
of the capitalist system in this country.
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[01:18:40]
And there is a pattern to demand worker participation. And that's important, although it's not the
solution, of course. Because as long as the economy is controlled by monopolies, by the
corporations, they're never going to fully respond to the needs and the interests of the people who
create the wealth.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: We have questions from the balcony. The young lady right in the
center.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Would you please comment on the Patty Hearst? Do you make any
sense of it at all?
EMMANUEL GILBERT: The lady wants you to comment on the Patty Hearst case, and
plaintively adds, do you make any sense of it at all?
[01:19:30]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, I'm just as confused as you are, frankly. One thing though that I
would like to comment about, if the newspapers in this country had spent half the space that they
spent on the Patty Hearst case talking about the San Quentin Six, or Delbert Tibbs, or Lolita
Lebrón, or the Wilmington Ten, then I think we would have been getting information that we
need.
It seems to me that there is an attempt on the part of the press to divert our attention from the real
struggles that need to be waged and won. See, she really doesn't have to worry that much, I don't
think. She has the whole Hearst empire behind her! [applause] What about these poor people
who don't even have the money to be able to hire a lawyer? And who find themselves in a
situation where they end up with a court-appointed, a public attorney or a public defender who's
in collusion with the judge.
[01:20:59]
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And this is something that happens over and over and over again. When I was in jail, when I was
in jail, I met a woman who lived next door to me in the cell, in the cell next door to me. She had
been there 18 months. She'd been there 18 months on a murder charge, and she was totally
innocent. They discovered, as a result of a confession by the person who actually committed the
crime that she had nothing to do with it. And they told her that they weren't going to release her
because they were afraid that she might sue them for false arrest.
[01:21:44]
So what they did was try to make a deal with her. If she pled guilty to a lesser crime, attempted
manslaughter, they would release her with time served. But because she refused to plead guilty,
she was still in jail when I was extradited, waiting to go through a trial with a lawyer who was
appointed by the court. And I never found out what happened to her.
But this is the fate of so many thousands of poor people in this country. This is what we have to
be concerned about.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: For those of us who agree with your position, could you give us a
few more concrete ways so that we can start as individuals, tomorrow or this week.
Unfortunately, we're not organizing masses and I think we need more direction as individuals.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: It's a request for tips on what to do if they believe in your position.
[laughter]
[01:23:04]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, no, I think that this is– I'm sorry, I'm talking about something that I'm
very serious about. Because it's a question of saving the lives of human beings. It's a question of
preventing, trying to prevent some of the violence and dehumanization that's inflicted on so
many people in this country. And I didn't come here just to throw out some ideas and have some
debates and arguments. I came here because I wanted to try to let you know what I feel is going
on. And those of you who feel inspired or motivated to get involved in the struggle, we welcome
you.
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[01:23:51]
As I mentioned before, I am one of the co-chair people of the National Alliance Against Racist
and Political Repression. That's a national organization which we built on the foundation of the
campaign which struggled and won my freedom. I felt very concerned when I was freed, that all
of those people who came out and demonstrated and attended meetings and signed petitions and
wore buttons and bought posters for me, that those people would understand that their mission
wasn't yet accomplished. I was only one out of many, many thousands of victims of injustice in
prison in this country. And we felt the struggle had to continue.
[01:24:42]
And so, we have built a united front movement that consists of people from communists such as
myself, to people like Ron Dellums and John Conyers, who are congress people in Washington,
affiliated with the Democratic Party. It consists of ministers and other political activists, Puerto
Ricans, Chicanos, Asians, Native American Indians, white people. There is a chapter, for the
sister who asked the question in the balcony, here in Boston. And we were told that it was not
possible to distribute literature about the work of the Alliance here in the hall. But I think that
there will be some people on the outside. So if you really want to know what you can do– are
there petitions? There are petitions, for example, that some of the sisters and brothers from the
local chapter of the Alliance– incidentally, there are chapters of the Alliance in over 20, about 21
states in the country now. There are petitions for the Wilmington Ten, for the San Quentin Six.
And I think there's material on many– because I've only spoken about a very minute fraction of
the work that we're involved in.
[01:26:17]
I also want you to know that the honorarium that is being given to me for this meeting will be
used by the Alliance to print literature about the cases, to organize meetings. And we are
incidentally, for any of you who are interested in coming, having a national conference in
Pittsburgh from November 14th through 16th, the weekend of November 14th and 16th. It's going
to be at the University of Pittsburgh. I'd like to invite all of you to attend. I think there may be
some literature on the conference outside as well.
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�MS113.0014 Transcript
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Miss Davis, if there is a competing group, lest they claim equal
time in return for that plug, we'll have time for one more question. Who has the most important
question? This young lady had her hand up a long time; please.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Mine's the most important though! [laughter]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: All right, we'll make it two questions. First the young lady, then
you'll have the second one, and that will be it.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Which nation today, if any, is nearest to your political and social
ideal, if it exists. And if so, which country and why?
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Which nation today is closest to your beliefs politically and
socially?
[01:27:47]
ANGELA DAVIS: Well, I think that my remarks made it clear that I am a communist.
Although this evening I came to speak not on behalf of the Communist Party, but on behalf of a
united front campaign, an organization that consists of people who have all kinds of political
differences. But you see, the one thing that we have decided is that repression and racism are
things that affect all of us, regardless of how we feel about the revolution, whether we feel there
should be one, or what kind. And so, we have decided that we put our differences in the closet
for the purpose of building that unity in order to struggle against the things that affect us all.
[01:28:45]
But at the same time, I can point out that I am a communist and I support and feel aligned with
the socialist community of nations. I feel that socialism is something that, of course, is and must
be based on certain fundamental premises; namely, the transformation of the economy by placing
the means of production in the hands of the people by taking them from the hands of the
capitalist minority and placing them in the hands of the people.
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30
�MS113.0014 Transcript
Now, of course, in terms of the actual society that is built in all of its ramifications, that is going
to have to take place on the basis of the history of that country, the traditions of that country, the
culture of that country. And socialism has many faces in terms of what the masses of people do
in their daily lives, their culture, their traditions, their history. There is socialism in Cuba. And of
course, the history of the Cuban people is different from the history of the peoples of the Soviet
Union. And within the Soviet Union, the people of Uzbekistan, for example, who are Asian, have
a different culture and different traditions and different history than the Russians do. So there are
differences that exist from Russia, to Georgia, to Armenia, to Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and so
forth.
[01:30:35]
When we build socialism in this country, we are going to have to build socialism on the basis of
the best of the traditions and culture and history of working people in this country – black,
brown, red, yellow and white. [applause]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: And now the gentleman with the ultimate question.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I want to just raise the name of a young man who was very renown
in athletic circles. His name is Rommie Loudd. Rommie Loudd is well known in this area. He
gave a large part of his life to an organization in this area. Went to Florida and organized a blackowned ball franchise, football. And the effrontery of an uppity black man to do this apparently
has led to– that is his analysis of what has happened to him. He is in jail in Florida now.
[01:31:34]
Now, the question I have is– and also I might mention that the Boston Globe reported recently
that there is a fund on his behalf to which people in this room and people who hear my voice all
over New England can send resources. But my question is–
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Ah, yes, I was curious. [laughter]
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31
�MS113.0014 Transcript
AUDIENCE QUESTION: My question is, number one, has his case come to the attention of
your organization? And if not, would your organization be willing to add his name to the list of
those about whom you're concerned. Thank you so much.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: I don't think I'll repeat that. I think you heard it as clearly as I.
Would you address yourself to it?
[01:32:16]
ANGELA DAVIS: Let me answer by saying that if the case has emerged, I'm certain that the
Florida Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression knows about it and is probably
contributing energies and talents and time to the struggle to free him. Florida is a place that is, at
this point, I think, quite well known for injustices towards black people. Two black men who
were recently released, Pitts and Lee – perhaps you've read about that – spent about 12 years of
their lives, many of them on death row, as a result of a racist conviction that took place when
someone else confessed to the crime; it was a question of a murder. Nine years ago, someone
confessed that he had committed this murder for which Pitts and Lee were convicted. Yet, it has
taken nine long years to have them pardoned by the governor of Florida.
[01:33:34]
There are cases like this all over the country, many right here in Boston. As Malcolm once said,
there is Down South, but there's also Up South and Out South, too. And I think Boston has
demonstrated better than any other place in this country that racism is not confined to a
geographical area. If we don't all begin to concretely contribute something, something, a little
time, a little energy, a little creativity to the campaign, to put an end to this racism, then we can
be sure that there won't be any question about talking about our futures and the futures of our
children and our grandchildren.
Let me thank you, since this is the last question.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Before you go, can I just ask one question? It's not even a question.
It's a criticism towards you.
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32
�MS113.0014 Transcript
EMMANUEL GILBERT: No, no, no.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Are you going to listen or are you going to let me run your show?
EMMANUEL GILBERT: No, I'm not going to listen. [simultaneous conversation] I'm sorry.
You can ask her afterward.
ANGELA DAVIS: I'm sorry, I don't understand the criticism that you have.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Okay, one is that you're here and you're in this place. When you
first came on, you said you thank him for letting him use your auditorium. You come to the
ghetto where you belong and we give you an auditorium to speak from. The people there need
you. They don't need you. [simultaneous conversation]
ANGELA DAVIS: Brother, brother that's where–
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Down with support rule. The businessman, what you got sitting
here–
[01:35:21]
ANGELA DAVIS: Excuse me, nobody said– I'm on my way right now to a meeting where
we're going to talk about what black people and other progressive forces in this city can do to
continue to fight against this racism. But I happen to think– see, I think that it's a tactic of the
ruling class to try to make white people and black people as well feel that white people are
supposed to be racist, you know that it's inherent, that it's something that can't be changed. That's
why I read earlier that quote from Dr. Du Bois who said that people who become the unwilling
victims, the pawns, the agents of racism are doing nothing more than hurting themselves.
[01:36:16]
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33
�MS113.0014 Transcript
And see, I think that white people are going to have to pay an ever-increasing and militant role in
the struggle against racism. Maybe as a result of this meeting. Maybe as a result of this meeting
there will be some white people in this audience who will be courageous enough to go and try to
deal with some of those raw people and try to convey to other white people that they are only
hurting themselves by aligning themselves with the racist and reactionary forces in this country.
All of us need to get together and unite! [applause]
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Thank you very much.
[01:37:05]
ANGELA DAVIS: Thank you.
EMMANUEL GILBERT: Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned.
FRANK FITZMORRIS: Tonight's Ford Hall Forum speaker has been activist and author
Angela Davis. Next week, the Forum's guest will be Jimmy Breslin, the former Boston Globe
and New York Herald Tribune columnist, now an award-winning syndicated columnist and TV
commentator. His topic will be the illusion of power. That's Jimmy Breslin, next time on the
Ford Hall Forum.
This program has come to you from Boston through the facilities of WGBH radio. Technical
supervision was by John Moran.
This is Frank Fitzmorris speaking. And this is the Eastern Public Radio Network.
END OF RECORDING
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34
�
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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MS113.0014
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Angela Davis speech, "Organized Struggle Against Racial and Political Repression" at the Ford Hall Forum [transcript]
Date
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10 May 1975
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Davis, Angela, 1944-
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PDF
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Forums (Discussion and debate)
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African Americans -- Civil rights
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Black history
Civil rights
Ford Hall Forum
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The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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Bernard Aronson and John Kerry discuss, "Nicaragua: Contras, Sandinistas, and US Aid" at the Ford Hall Forum [audio recording]
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9 November 1986
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Kerry, John, 1943-
Aronson, Bernard
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Frente Sandinista de Liberacio?n Nacional
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Text
Ford Hall Forum: Transcript of Beyers Naudé Forum
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: Reverend Beyers Naudé “South Africa,” at Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Date: 27 October 1985
Speakers: Reverend Beyers Naudé, Paula Gold, Donald Tye
Item Information: Ford Hall Forum: featuring Reverend Beyers Naudé on, “South
Africa.” Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013 (MS113.3.1, items 0036 and 0037)
Moakley Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: audio recording and transcript available at:
http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Copyright Information: Copyright © 1985 Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Summary: Reverend Beyers Naudé, an Afrikaner and General Secretary of
the South African Council of Churches, discusses the future of apartheid in South Africa.
�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
Transcript Begins
PAULA GOLD: Good evening, and welcome to the Ford Hall Forum. I'm Paula Gold,
and I'm president of the Forum. Tonight, we are very fortunate to have a distinguished
visitor from South Africa to discuss the situation in that country with us.
This program has been made possible through the cooperation of a great many
organizations, including the New England Circle.
Before we begin, since I know that many of you are new to the Forum, I would like to
briefly mention our upcoming programs. We have two programs remaining on our fall
schedule. Both of them are part of our series on health and politics. Eleanor Holmes
Norton, who served in the Carter administration, the first black woman to serve as a
cabinet officer, will speak on the nationwide crisis of teenage pregnancy. That's next
Sunday night, November 3rd, at Faneuil Hall. The following Thursday, Dr. Paul Starr will
be speaking on the dilemma of healthcare costs and availability.
One final thing I'd like to mention before we begin is that these free lectures are
supported by people like you who become members of the Forum. Without the help of
our members, programs like tonight's would not be possible. So if you can, please join
the Forum using the form in the green brochure or by signing up at the desk as you leave.
By becoming a member, you will help ensure that programs like this continue.
It's now time to begin our program. Our interpreter for this program is Michella Slaytek
[?], and our moderator this evening is Donald Tye. Don is in general trial practice in
Boston, specializing in family and mental health law, and is a member of the Forum's
board of directors.
Ladies and gentlemen, tonight's moderator, Don Tye. [applause]
[00:02:30]
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
DONALD TYE: "I think for the first time, the average young Afrikaner is confused and
uncertain about the future, especially since the government announced the state of
emergency on July 20, 1985. A lot of Afrikaners simply don't understand why there is
rioting. The press is one-sided. Television is tightly controlled. People aren't exposed to
reality so they have misconceptions of color."
[00:02:55]
These are the words of Anami Oosthuizen, a 23-year-old law student and the only woman
among the Stellenbosch Eight, a group of eight Afrikaner students from the leading
Afrikaans university in South Africa, who this week shocked South Africa's ruling white
minority and the world by accepting the invitation of the outlawed African National
Congress to go to the group's headquarters in exile in Lusaka, Zambia, for informal talks.
[00:03:28]
Our speaker today, Reverend Beyers Naudé, a white Afrikaner, 49 years ago also
graduated from the University of Stellenbosch and has spent much of his adult life
accepting a similar challenge. Joseph Lellyveld, in his 1985 book, Move Your Shadow,
published by Time Books, compares Reverend Naudé to the dissident Soviet physicist,
Andrei Sakharov. Naudé's apostasy, like Sakharov's, he says, was especially galling and
unforgivable because it occurred at the very heart of a power elite. Once he had been the
most highly Afrikaner clergyman of his generation. Any position his church or people
had to offer could have been within his reach. Now, or so the top security officials
contend, he is an agent of the underground, as Sakharov had illicit ties with the
Americans. Where Reverend Naudé came from, a white who believed in black power,
had to be at least a communist if he wasn't even more depraved.
At the age of 48, for the first time, Reverend Naudé actively engaged in viewing firsthand
life in black townships, speaking to blacks about being black in white South Africa. In
1963, as senior minister of the most prestigious Dutch Reformed Church congregation in
Johannesburg, he was chosen as a representative to an ecumenical conference on
apartheid, sponsored by the World Council of Churches.
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
[00:05:15]
Refusing to recant, as all others did, from the group's position of conscience, that all
racial groups have an equal right to share the "responsibilities, rewards and privileges" of
citizenship, he was becoming undependable by the church leadership, a political
dissident. At this time, he began publishing an ecumenical journal called Pro Veritate,
addressing itself to the church's role in society and the questions the church was evading.
In the late 1960s, Reverend Naudé gave up his pulpit to found the Christian Institute as
an ecumenical movement aimed primarily at influencing the white churches. His own
church, as others, soon formally proscribed his institute as a heretical organization.
Although never having talked politics with a black nationalist, nor having dined in black
homes, by the age of 50, Reverend Naudé was condemned as a traitor, isolated wholly
within Afrikandom, isolated by his community and by even members of his immediate
family, including his two sisters who have become permanently alienated.
[00:06:36]
After offering organizational support to Stephen Biko and other blacks flaunting black
consciousness, political authorities stepped up pressure. By 1968, his passport was seized
and the Christian Institute was declared affected or subversive, curtailing its ability to
raise funds from overseas. After Stephen Biko's death in 1977, the Christian Institute was
banned as an organization. Until September 26, 1984, Reverend Naudé was banned as an
individual. It was illegal for him to travel within South Africa, enter black areas, attend
any public meetings or be quoted in any publication, even if he were to die.
Despite restrictions, Reverend Naudé's circle of contacts among black churchmen and
activists was expanding wider than any white in South Africa. His example demonstrated
that it could be done.
[00:07:43]
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
At the age of 68, Reverend Naudé is still regarded as dangerous. In 1984, along with
imprisoned Nelson Mandela, he was named a patron of the United Democratic Front led
by Reverend Allan Boesak, and composed of 600 affiliated organizations, as an alliance
against apartheid. In November 1984, Reverend Naudé was invited to become successor
of Reverend Desmond Tutu as General Secretary of the South African Council of
Churches and assumed that position on February 1, 1985.
[00:08:23]
I am pleased to introduce the recipient of four honorary degrees, including one from our
own Notre Dame University; University of Chicago's Reverend Niebuhr's Prize for
Human Rights, together with Dr. Sakharov; the Bruno Kreisky Award for the Defense of
Human Rights granted by the president of Austria; and the Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Four Freedoms Award for freedom of worship, which he was not allowed even to accept;
and the person who Reverend Desmond Tutu has described as the most resplendent
sound of hope in South Africa today, Reverend Naudé. [applause]
[00:09:27]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: Mr. Moderator, ladies and gentlemen, may I be allowed to make
two introductory remarks before I share with you something about the situation in our
country, the crisis and the prospects of hope; first of all, to say that I understand that this
building was the building where the Revolution started, leading to the Boston Tea Party
and the overthrow of an unjust rule of the people of America. When I heard that, I
immediately said, Well, then, this is a dangerous place to bring a guy like Beyers Naudé
because I may start another revolution in what I may be saying to you or to others
tonight.
[00:10:13]
The second remark would be to say that this reminds me very much of one of our oldest
congregations of the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa, where I had to preach, and
where the minister told me and said, "Look, Beyers, we want you to know the benches
5
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
are upright, the seats are hard. If you don't say anything which is worthwhile, shut up."
And I'm aware of that in what I am eager to share with you tonight.
[00:10:54]
I assume that most of you are here tonight would be reasonably well informed about what
is happening in South Africa. In more than one respect, I find it incredible, although
deeply gratifying, that there is so much interest in our country because there are so many
other concerns and problems that America faces from day to day. I think that you, during
the last six months, through your media – screen, radio, publications – have certainly
been able to gain much more information and insight and a visual conception of what has
happened in South Africa than the vast majority of the inhabitants of the country. I have
seen footage of what you have been able to view on your screens and in comparison with
what has been shown, or not been shown, in our country.
[00:12:21]
I had some time ago when somebody asked me where it would be possible to get a wide
and a varied and an objective picture of what is happening, I had to say to that person, "If
you wish really to know what is going on inside South Africa, you've got to go outside."
That is partly true because of the fact that our television is state-controlled. Our radio is
state-controlled. Our press is mostly government-owned, or also strongly controlled by a
number of very serious restrictions with regard to publication. Especially as far as the 36
magisterial districts which have recently been declared as emergency districts in South
Africa, where nothing can be published without having been put first of all to the police
for their reaction or that respective department.
[00:13:29]
So I'm not going to deal in detail with specific incidents and happenings and events in the
country. I think it would be more worthwhile for me, in the half an hour or little more
than half an hour at my disposal before you have the ample time for asking questions, I
think it would be more helpful if I could try to summarize and pinpoint the essential
nature of the crisis in which we find ourselves.
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
I believe that there is none of us who would gainsay or would dispute the fact that we are
a country in crisis. I would go further and say that we are definitely a country which finds
itself in a state of civil war. And I would be prepared to go even further by saying, if the
situation continues to be handled the way it is being handled by the authorities up till
now, we certainly are on our way to a revolution.
[00:14:41]
Having said that, I think I should explain why I'm saying this. First of all, because if I
were to reply to the question – what is the nature of the crisis? – I would immediately
point to the educational situation in our country and say that black education in the
country, for all purposes, is lying in shambles. Thousands and thousands of black
schoolkids are in and out of school, are for a specific period in the classrooms busy with
some form of education. The school is closed. The children have got to go home. And
shortly afterwards it's tried again. The same applies to the majority of your black state
universities.
And we've created a situation, or a situation has developed where, for all practical
purposes, regular school and university education amongst the blacks, and now
increasingly also amongst the colored– and forgive me for using these racial terms, but
that's the only way in which I can describe a deeply divided society as such is South
Africa – blacks being those of African ethnic origin; coloreds being those of so-called
mixed blood; and the Indians or Asians, those who have come from India. And where for
all practical purposes, any form of regular education amongst the African and the colored
sectors of our community is simply not taking place.
[00:16:36]
And I'm convinced, if my reading and if my analysis of the situation is correct, that
except if drastic measures are taken by the government to meet the legitimate demands on
the part of the people, there will be no meaningful, relevant, regular black or colored
education in South Africa until a total fundamental political change takes place.
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�MS113.0036-0037 Transcript
Now, how is it possible that a country could allow this to happen? If this were to have
happened to white schoolchildren and to white students, the whole country would have
been up in arms and immediate changes would have been made. The fact that it hasn't
happened is an indication of the nature and the seriousness of the problem.
[00:17:30]
But our crisis is also a political one. In that respect – and I want to pinpoint the essential
nature of that because of the lack of time – we are dealing with a situation where in
November 1983, the white community of South Africa had the opportunity in a
referendum to accept a newly proposed constitution which would make provision for a
three-cameral parliament – one for whites, one for coloreds, one for Indians – but in such
proportions that the whites would always be the dominant voting factor, but with the total
exclusion of any blacks in the political decision-making process of the country. 4.7
million whites; 2.7 million coloreds; .75 million Indians, and 22 million blacks, and the
22 totally excluded from the right to determine their own political future.
Sixty-six percent of all the white voters of South Africa approved that constitution. It was
from that moment, a moment of historic watershed in the history of South Africa, where
the whole black community, with the support of the major sector of the colored and the
Indian communities, said, "Enough is enough. We're not going to take it. We're never
going to subject ourselves to this." Because what the whites essentially were saying to the
black community was, through that action, "You've never been part of South Africa. We
don't see you to be part of South Africa. You will never be part of South Africa in
future."
[00:19:35]
That was the reason for the birth of the tremendous growth in popularity of an
organization like the United Democratic Front. That was the reason why 450
organizations affiliated to this body, this umbrella – political movement for change in
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South Africa. And that crisis will never, to my mind, be resolved as long as the present
constitution remains in operation.
[00:20:13]
That's the second serious crisis. The third one is the economic one. And I don't want to
burden you with so many facts and figures because I do not believe that I need to
convince you in this regard. I would just wish to summarize by saying that economically
the situation in South Africa has taken a turn, very serious turn for the worse. For many
years, South Africa prided itself on its wealth, its growth, its gold production, diamonds,
minerals, raw materials sold to the outside world, in every respect. South Africa was
proud to pay its debts because it had money enough. In fact, South Africa was so rich that
it could afford a system of apartheid, run so many institutions parallel, highly privileged
on the part of the whites, and where blacks, to a large degree, paid the price for the
comfort and the luxury of the white minority.
A number of events in the last two or three years brought us into a crisis situation with
regard to the economic position of South Africa – the high defense budget, a long
drought, the drop in the price of gold, the weak exchange value of the rand, rising
inflation, growing black unemployment, not only the rural, but also in the urban areas.
All these brought South Africa to the point where for the first time the white community
in South Africa began to discover the high cost of apartheid. And still they don't fully
understand. But it's enough to let you realize how serious the situation has become.
[00:22:07]
South Africa's external debt has been stated by the government to be 40 billion rand. In
fact, it is not 40 billion; it is 55 billion rand. Now, I know that for Americans dealing with
much larger figures, this may not sound to be so impressive or so difficult. But in the
context of South Africa's economy, that is a tremendous amount of money. Of that 55
billion rand, 35 billion has got to be repaid within the next 12 months. And according to
all the information at my disposal, and I believe this is very reliable information, South
Africa is not able to repay that debt.
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[00:22:59]
And that is why, when Chase Manhattan Bank told Gerhard de Kock, the governor of the
Reserve Bank, the ex-governor now, that Chase Manhattan was not willing to supply the
bridging funds for the repayment of the short-term loans, it created a major crisis in South
Africa and our stock exchange closed for five days in order to help the whites in the
country in general to adapt itself to that tremendous emotional shock. And now South
Africa is desperately trying to find the bridging funds, either from Swiss or German or
other banks. And it'll be very interesting to note what those banking institutions are going
to do.
So for all practical purposes, South Africa can be termed to be bankrupt. Because those
short-term loans cannot be repaid. Not with the form of production of South Africa at the
present moment. And with the increasing number of short- and long-term strikes, because
the workers are demanding their rights and higher wages, which they deserve, and with
the ongoing crisis and unrest in the country, and with the growing instability which this
has created, we at least have come to a point where to a certain degree the whole
discussion about divestment – to which I would like to return in a moment – or sanctions
is in a certain sense being overtaken by the decisions of many overseas companies and
businessmen looking at South Africa, looking at its growing instability, deciding for
themselves: "It may possibly be better for us to get out while the going is good. Not
because the churches in America or the universities or the institutions are pressuring us to
do so, but because we ourselves have discovered that it may not be helpful any longer to
let our capital remain in the country."
[00:25:17]
Therefore, I cannot see that crisis can be resolved. Certainly not in the foreseeable future.
And especially if you have thousands and thousands of young blacks in the urban areas of
South Africa, unemployed, those completing their schooling, even half-completing their
schooling, finding themselves without any form of income or of employment, or the
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possibility of meaningful employment, then certainly that is a recipe for resistance and
for revolution.
[00:25:52]
But could I just for a moment point out that the crisis, I think, runs even deeper. All
countries experience such forms of crises in the course of its development. But when that
crisis itself goes to the very root of society – namely, the moral and the ethical concepts
of justice, of human rights, of human dignity, denied to the majority of the people of the
land – then we have reached a point where no other solution is possible than to attack that
malady, that illness at the grass roots.
That is where the problem lies that the majority of your white community still wishes to
support the system of apartheid. Yes, they would like to have it changed, they would like
to have it amended, they would like to have certain reforms being presented, but the
majority of them, of the white community in South Africa is not prepared to face, to meet
the legitimate challenge and the legitimate demands of the majority of the people of the
land by saying, "Basically, we want to share the same rights and the same responsibilities
as you have. You have the vote? We also want it. You have certain economic rights and
privileges? We also want it. You have a fairly good system of education? We also want
it."
[00:27:30]
What is revolutionary in that? What is undemocratic in that? Think of your own history.
Think of the heritage of American pride in the institutions of your democracy, of your
Bill of Rights, of the civil rights movement, which brought the message to the people of
the United States, that basically every person is equal before the sight of God. That is
what it is all about in its deepest essence. And as long as that is denied, the crisis will
continue and will increase.
[00:28:19]
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Where has this brought us, friends? I think I would wish to summarize it by saying that it
has brought us to the point of an increasing rebellion against the present political system,
where the majority of the people are up in arms. Not arms in that physical sense of the
word, but they are resisting with all the possible means at their disposal the present
system and saying, "We will not rest and we will not be satisfied until we are having a
meaningful share in the whole process of political decision-making in our country."
Twenty-two million people excluded from any possibility of expressing their political
views and making them felt, making them effective where they should be effective;
namely, where the laws are made.
[00:29:23]
The rebellion against that system is also a rebellion against the whole educational system.
And I would like to repeat by saying that I see no possibility of any return to normal
education in the black and the colored and increasingly also in the Indian communities
until the basic grievance of an inferior, discriminatory, unjust educational system is
addressed with all your blacks in separate schools, coloreds in their own schools, Indians
in their schools, whites in their separate schools, and even the whites divided between
your Afrikan-speaking children and the English-speaking children. And therefore, I see
no possibility, except an ongoing resistance and rebellion on the parts of millions of
young blacks who have come to that point where they've said, "Enough is enough. Even
if we have to stand up, to be shot, to be killed, to die, it is better to die for a good cause
than to live with such a bad system."
[00:30:44]
It is also a rebellion against the whole concept of a false authority. And here, I'm
referring especially to the whole legal system, the myriads of racial laws, the security
legislation in our country where increasingly the black and the colored and the Indian
and, thank God, also, a small percentage of the white community is saying that a legal
machinery, the legal machinery of a facade of justice has been built up to uphold a legal
system which is basically unjust, discriminatory and totally unacceptable from the
concept of the rule of law.
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[00:31:36]
And that is why, friends, increasingly every form of respect also for the visible authority
of the law has not only been so eroded and undermined, but has reached such a low point.
The outlook of many of the young blacks that there is a growing total rejection of that
system of upholding the legal position of the police trying to implement laws which the
majority of your black and your colored and your Indian community regard – and
justifiably regard – as unjust, as inhuman, and as oppressive. And when a country reaches
that stage where the respect for law and for the offices of law reach such a position, it is
the beginning of revolution.
[00:32:47]
It is more than that. It is in fact the beginning of a situation where, as it gains momentum
more and more, can only call forth the resistance on the part of an oppressive and an
unjust rule. Therefore, if you wish to ask me what has been the response of the
government to what has been happening in South Africa in the last year, especially in the
last number of months – you've seen this on your news and I don't want to point out any
specific particulars – I could share with you tonight many personal incidents which will
not only shock you, but it will certainly bring home to you the anguish, the suffering and
the pain of thousands of people.
[00:33:46]
The government has responded, on the one hand, with a very hesitant and inadequate
form of reform. The government has announced that it agrees to common citizenship for
the future. It agrees to general franchise. It agrees to the withdrawal of the hated pass
laws. On the other hand, the state president has, in practically the same breath, announced
and said, "Yes, but this does not imply a unitary state with one-man-one-vote." And we
don't have any indication of how long it will take before the pass laws will be withdrawn.
We don't have any indication of what measures will be taken in order to implement these
forms of reform.
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[00:34:33]
But even if they are implemented, the basic point which you have to understand is this:
that PW Botha, can only go as far in these reforms as the white electorate who put him in
power, will allow him to go. And the white electorate, with their self-interests, with the
fear, with the tremendous privilege and power that they've enjoyed in being able to
maintain this system for so many years, do you really believe that the majority of them
would voluntarily relinquish their position of privilege and power?
[00:35:15]
In fact, this is one of the major problems, that the separation which has been created over
so many decades between white and black in the country, not only geographically and
physically, but also mentally and emotionally and psychologically, this separation has
been so successful and so almost complete that in the hearts and minds of the majority of
the white community of South Africa, there has grown this schizophrenic fear of what
may happen when blacks may receive the same rights and privileges as the whites. That's
the major concern of many of the whites. And that is why in a survey which was
undertaken amongst 1000 whites two weeks ago, in which this one question was asked,
"Do you believe that there will be majority rule in South Africa," 66% of those who
replied to that questionnaire said, "Definitely no."
How is it then possible, even if PW Botha wants to bring about fundamental reform, how
is it possible that he will be able to do that if he doesn't have the backing of his own
electorate? It simply cannot happen.
[00:36:38]
At the same time, parallel to these reforms which have been announced, you have had the
implementation of the security laws in those areas which have been declared as
emergency areas to such a degree that police actions of brutality of the police and the
army have reached frightening proportions. You've seen something of this on your
screens; much more than that has taken place and is taking place. And the outcome of
that has been that never in the history of our country have the feelings of the black
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community of anger and bitterness against the state authority as reflected and symbolized
by the presence of police and of the army in the black townships, never has it been so
deep and so strong and so bitter as today.
[00:37:49]
That is why you have the increasing attacks of young blacks on police, security police.
That is why the homes of black councilors who support the government's system have
been set alight and burned. That is why at funerals, when it is discovered that there is a
black informer taking part in the funeral, young blacks get so angry that they throw petrol
over such a person, grab him or her, and set such a person alight. I know, this is terrible! I
know how you and I must feel about that. And that is being used and exploited by the
government and by many others to say, "Do you see that? Do you realize that? That
shows that the blacks are totally incompetent, even to be in freedom and in responsibility
amongst themselves. How then is it possible to entrust the future government of the
country to them?"
[00:38:57]
People who say that, friends, have no understanding of the long, pent–up anger and
bitterness over years in the hearts and minds of the millions of the blacks of the way in
which they've been treated and the hundreds and more who have been in prisons, and the
way they've been treated. And therefore, although I deeply regret it, I can only say that
one has to understand, and one has to say, not first of all to those young people "don't do
it," but you first have to address yourself to the system with its oppression, with its
injustice and say, "Remove this injustice. Remove this oppression. Make the people free
and you won't have this kind of retaliatory action which is taking place."
[00:40:00]
But it's more than that. In addition to that, there has been the total refusal of some of the
basic demands which have been made. Four such demands have been made. First of all,
many of the black leaders have said, "End the state of emergency. Remove the security
forces from the townships. Release all political prisoners. And allow exiles to return.
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Allow a free plebiscite of the people to appoint and to elect their own authentic leaders in
order to sit down and to plan the future of the country." The response on the part of the
government has been a decided, definite, clear "no."
What hope is there, then, of any peaceful solution?
[00:40:57]
In addition to this, the government has, over the past two, three years, especially, engaged
in a deliberate process of destabilizing the surrounding countries. The incursions of the
army into Lesotho, into Botswana, into Mozambique, into Angola, these are known
historical facts that are reported in your press. And this goes on all the time. The
government defends itself by saying, "If we regard any of these surrounding countries or
the incursion of the African National Congress to be a threat to our security and to our
dominant position, we will not hesitate to take action and, if necessary, to retaliate." This
may be, from the political viewpoint of the government, understandable. But it certainly
is not going to help us to a position of reconciliation and solution of our problems. In the
meantime, the militarization of our country goes on without any interruption.
[00:42:05]
And I would not be surprised if the state of emergency does not end, or if eventually, if
the situation becomes to such a point of crisis that the whole country will have to be
declared in a state of emergency, that then inevitably our country will move into some
form of military rule. And if that's the case, we simply have to face a long, ongoing, lowscale form of guerilla warfare, of civil war, of woundings, of clashes, of conflicts, of
killings, and of deaths.
[00:42:47]
I know this may sound very depressing to you. I hope it doesn't sound sensational,
because I don't want to be sensational. I don't want to be melodramatic. I'm too concerned
about the future of the country. I'm too concerned about the concept of justice. I'm too
much concerned about the role which we have to play in order to minimize violence and
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to bring about peace. And I say this not only for the sake of the blacks who are suffering
so deeply; I'm saying this also for the sake of the whites. I'm a white. I'm an Afrikaner. I
don't deny my Afrikanerdom. I understand why my people are doing this. I don't agree
with it; I totally and I utterly disagree. But I thank God that I don't hate them for what
they are doing; I hate the system, yes, I hate the injustice, I hate the oppression, I hate the
racism, because I believe it dehumanizes the oppressor even more than the oppressed.
But having said that, I cannot stand aside and silently view a country being led to a
situation of suicide and revolution.
[00:44:13]
And therefore, with that, I wish to close. The question arises, what can be done in South
Africa? I believe that there is very little hope that the whites will, of their own volition,
change the situation. I believe we have got to face the fact that there will be the ongoing
pressures on the part of the blacks until the situation, both economically and otherwise,
forces the white community eventually to say, "We cannot continue with what we're
doing, what we've done up to now."
[00:44:52]
And in closure, I think it is important to try and answer – I say try and answer – the
question, what is there that you as people of the United States could possibly do? First of
all, I would like to say that I believe that it is absolutely essential that you continue to
pressure also your own government in order to apply more meaningful forms of
disinvestment on our country. And why am I saying this? I'm saying this in the face of
the fact that I know that I could be charged for saying this, but I'm saying this, friends,
because this is one of the last peaceful measures remaining to us in order to avoid a
conflict of violence and bloodshed in our country.
It is only when especially the white community begin to feel in their own pockets what it
means in order to pay that price that they will begin to sit up and to say, "We have to
reconsider what is happening."
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[00:45:52]
I believe it is also important that you as a nation with all the power at your disposal, that
you apply the necessary pressures also on your Swiss and your German bankers to
indicate to them that they can make a meaningful contribution to this struggle for
liberation if they are prepared to cooperate with the American bankers.
[00:46:23]
I believe it's important that you should see and place into its proper perspective the
struggle for justice in South Africa. And I know that our government tries to sell, and
sometimes sells successfully also to the people of the public of the United States this idea
that our government is the strongest anti-communist force on the continent of Africa, and
that it stands for the Christian values and the values of Western Civilization.
[00:46:52]
If any of you or anybody else is impressed by that argument, let me answer you in one
single sentence: That if anybody would like to ask me and say, "What is the strongest
single factor of promoting the sympathy for communism in South Africa?" without
hesitation my reply would be, the policy of apartheid. And as long as that remains, there
is no way to solve the situation by all these false arguments. And to claim that we are a
Christian government and a Christian people, I believe that in no other respect that makes
a mockery of the real understanding of the Christian faith.
I believe it's important that you express increasingly your solidarity with the oppressed
and with those who are the victims of apartheid. I am deeply grateful for many responses
of active support which have come from the United States. I'm thinking of the
demonstrations against the embassy. I'm thinking of many actions which have been
taken. But I believe it's important to continue and to increase that support of your
solidarity.
[00:48:10]
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But above all, I think it is important that you remove from your own society every form
of latent or hidden racism which there still may be. Because as long as the white
community in South Africa can point to the United States or to Britain or to any other
part of the world and say, "You have no right to criticize us. You have no right to become
involved in our struggle with all the forms of racism still evident and prevalent in your
society," it makes it much more difficult for us to answer that.
[00:48:43]
And above all, I believe that the tremendous and wonderful heritage which you have
gained and which you hold dear, your respect for human dignity, for human rights, for the
recognition of a person being a person in his own right, for the concept of human liberty
and freedom, for true democracy, if you regard these values to be the most meaningful
for the maintenance of a free society, please understand and support those in our country
who claim to seek the same for themselves. They are the ones who need your support.
They are the ones who look forward to you through your acts and through everything that
you convey to strengthen them in their struggle until the day when they will be free. That
day will come. I've no doubt whatsoever that that day will come. And when it comes, I
would gladly wish to see that the people of the United States should have been seen by
the struggling masses of South Africa not to have been on the side of the oppressor, but
on the side of those who were oppressed and who struggled to achieve their liberation.
Thank you. [applause]
DONALD TYE: For the benefit of the radio audience, what I'm going to do is to repeat,
as we usually do, the questions that are asked. We'll try to go from one side of the room
to the other. And I'd like to ask you to try to keep your question as a question, as concise
as possible, rather than attempting to make a protracted political statement. And we'll
start from over here, please. Yes, sir?
Q: [off mic]
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DONALD TYE: Reverend Naudé, can you guarantee that the government that takes
over will be a democratic government with the protections of a democratic government?
[00:52:04]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: It depends how this takes place. It depends whether the people of
the country would be given the opportunity to decide and to elect their own future
leaders. I can only state clearly that as far as a body like the UDF is concerned, it has
pledged itself to a democratic and a non-racial future. I can only state that everywhere
where I went, and with all that I and many others have spoken, that there is nothing else
but the deep and urgent longing to set up a fully democratic rule in South Africa. But if
you were to ask me whether I could give that guarantee, certainly not; it is not possible.
But on the basis of all the signs and the pointers and the indications there, I'm convinced
that such a change is taking place and will take place. And when it does come, I believe it
is essential that one gives such a government the full opportunity to prove itself.
DONALD TYE: Do we have a question from this side? Yes, sir?
Q: How many people have been detailed since the state of emergency and under what
conditions are they being held?
DONALD TYE: Since the state of emergency, Reverend, how many people have been
detained and what is the state of those, sir, that are being detailed?
[00:53:32]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: It is difficult to get the full figures because these are not regularly
made known by the police, and it is impossible to ascertain it simply because people just
disappear and you don't know for how long. And eventually some of them turn up, and
some of them flee the country. But it has been ascertained that since September last year,
altogether 15,000 people were detained for shorter or longer periods, and then, again,
many of them released. Seven-hundred-forty people have died. And the number of deaths
continue to take place with every week of the clashes which are taking place.
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[00:54:15]
I only know that at the present moment, the South African Council of Churches, which
provides legal defense for a number of political cases, that we at the present moment are
dealing with about 1500 young people in different parts of the country being charged
either with intimidation, with acts of violence, with arson, or with being in possession of
banned literature and banned publication. And the number of court cases is escalating
every day. I've got to read through the records of every one of those cases before I give
my approval for that money to be paid out for the legal defense. And I can only say that
our staff has found a tremendous escalation. In fact, we've had to increase our staff not
only at the head office, but also in the regional offices, because the number of cases
continue to rise every week.
DONALD TYE: We have a question, yes, sir, in the blue shirt. Would you please stand?
Q: Yes, Reverend Naudé, you expressed pessimism for the possibility for peaceful
change in our country. Are there any circumstances of which you think that armed
struggle is justified? And more specifically, are there any circumstances of which you
would [55:41] of such a struggle?
DONALD TYE: Under what circumstances, sir, is armed resistance justified? And
under what circumstances would you support such resistance?
[00:55:52]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: The South African Council of Churches has up till now declared
itself to be fully in favor of peaceful change and expressed itself very strongly against
violence in any form. In the course of the last number of months, I've pointed out to the
Council that I believe that, although it is understandable that that stand was taken in the
past, that is no longer possible in view of the fact that we have in South Africa moved
into a situation not of violence versus non-violence, but in actual fact of a situation of
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people trying to bring about change by a lesser form of violence over against a great deal
of violence, that of the state and of the laws and of the police and of the army.
The debate is going on within the churches about the justification of the church or of the
Christian community in order to support otherwise the armed struggle of people who are
fighting for liberation. I have been actively engaged in stimulating that debate because I
believe that the churches have got to account themselves for the stand that they have to
take.
[00:57:13]
At this point in time, in view of the fact of this discussion taking place in our country, I
do not feel justified as general secretary to express my personal opinions in this regard
because I believe that is certainly not the right thing for me to do here. All that I'm saying
is I've stated very clearly in South Africa that there is no justification whatsoever for the
church or for anybody to condemn the armed struggle and to condemn the actions on the
part of the young people if the church has not been able to prove that its peaceful forms
of resistance are not more effective and could achieve that purpose.
DONALD TYE: Is there a question from the side? Yes, ma'am? Do you have a
question? Yes, would you stand, please?
Q: To counter the argument, one of the arguments that countered divestment, it's often
said that divestment is a one-shot deal and you'd lose any potential leverage you had. Do
you see any of these transnational corporations who have made huge profits from
apartheid, do you see them as ever having effectively argued for pressures and gotten
some reforms from the government?
[00:58:33]
DONALD TYPE: Regarding divestment, have you seen, sir, any of the trends, the large
corporations that have advocated divestment, seeing any actual progress from the
government?
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[00:58:46]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: I follows the debate and the pressures of the transnational
corporations with great interest and concern. Let me say in all fairness that of all the
overseas companies, the transnational corporations, your American corporations or the
majority of them have, in comparison with the others, certainly been willing to do much
more to bring about certain forms of change and of justice within their economic
structure. But having said that, I believe that these are by far inadequate to meet the real
problem in the country.
[00:59:24]
And I know that the argument of the corporations are that theirs is an economic interest
and that the political aspect of the problem is not something which they should be asked
to deal. In our situation in South Africa, I do not think that that argument is valid any
longer because of the serious nature of the crisis of the injustice which there is. And
therefore, I had hoped that there would be more meaningful measures which have been
taken, and pressures put upon the South African government by your transnational
corporations in conjunction with your South African business in order to do that. And
that can be done; especially now that the economy of the country is in such a very, very
fluid and sensitive state.
[01:00:15]
I sincerely hope that it will be possible. But let me say immediately that as far as the
politically conscious majority of the black opinion in South Africa is concerned, the
feelings are very strong that in view of the senior political crisis in the country and the
longing for liberation, that they would certainly see as the first option divestment where
possible. It is not because they want to harm the country. It is not because they want to
harm the infrastructure. It is not because they do not want to see that blacks have an equal
and full share in the economic advance and development of the country. But it is because
of the fact that they are saying, "We first have to deal with the basic and fundamental
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problem of injustice; namely, the political one. Once we've resolved that, then certainly
we can attend to a meaningful economic growth in the country."
Q: Could you tell us more about what specific things the Council of Churches does in
South Africa? Do you see it as a body that can continue what the Christian Institute tried
to do? And also, do you fear being banned yourself any longer, or does your position in
any sense protect you to be free to speak freely?
DONALD TYE: Would you describe what the Council of Churches does. And do you
see any repercussions from what you're doing now back in South Africa? And how does
your position protect you?
[01:01:47]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: As far as the Council of Churches is concerned, with regard to the–
I'm not referring to the other aspect, but with regard to the struggle for liberation in South
Africa, the Council of Churches has set up in the course of the last number of years a
form of support for the families of political prisoners where every month an amount
ranging between 80 rand and 100 rand a month is paid out to 800 families of political
prisoners. We wish that that amount could be much more, but we are not able to raise
more to give to them because the majority of that money comes from outside of the
country because the white community in South Africa would generally not be willing to
make any contribution.
[01:02:38]
Secondly, we've set up an emergency fund to make provision, first of all, for the cost of
funerals, make provision for a grant to a family where the breadwinner has been shot and
killed, assisting medical aid, provide legal defense, help fathers and mothers where
children are being charged and their cases are being heard and the trials held sometimes
long distances from their homes, to make available transport so that they can be there
where their children appear in court.
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In our emergency fund, we have also made provision for gathering the information on all
forms of torture, of detentions, of the problems which arise for families if children, for
instance, just disappear, to see what we can do to help such families.
[01:03:35]
In addition to that, we have embarked on a program where we're looking at an alternative
form of education for those children who increasingly will not be able or willing to
receive any regular form of black education. We're deeply concerned about the fact that
there may be a generation of students, of three, four years, five years, who for that period,
when other children are normally at school or at university, completing either their school
education or the university training, that they, because of the situation in the country, are
denied that opportunity. And we're desperately trying to see what we can do to set up
such alternative forms of education. We do not know whether the government will allow
it. It may be that the government will deny us that opportunity. But at least we can try.
[01:04:31]
In addition to that, we try to mobilize the feelings and the support of the worldwide
Christian community with the situation in South Africa. We've divided the country in
seven crisis zones. We have appointed four fieldworkers where we receive regular reports
for what is happening in those areas so that we are in a position to judge, hopefully, much
more effectively and correctly what is happening in the country than just to depend upon
news reports which in many respects are unreliable. And this information we try to make
available to all concerned people and groups and organizations who wish to be informed.
END ms113.0036
BEGIN ms113.0037
[00:00:02]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: We are actively cooperating with the Catholic Bishops' Conference,
with bodies like the Black Sash, with the black community in trying to see what we can
do to give them the necessary support. And that is the reason why, as general secretary, I
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have tried to make my contribution in my visit, for instance, to the States, and from here
to Canada.
[00:00:29]
With regard to the question of what this could entail by way of possible actions against
me, I'm aware that the stand of the Council and of myself against divestment, in favor of
civil disobedience, and other opinions which I've expressed could lay me open to a
similar charge as that under which Dr. Allan Boesak is charged, and under the Subversion
of the Internal Security Act and where he has to appear in court on November 6th. As you
may know, Dr. Allan Boesak is the president of the World Alliance of Reformed
Churches, and is due to appear in court in Cape Town, or in Malmesbury near Cape
Town, on November 6th. He has been charged on subversion for three counts – one, for
his stand on divestment; secondly, for him supporting the whole call for a consumer
boycott of white businesses; and thirdly, for the support of your school boycott. And if
that could happen to him, it could certainly equally happen to me.
[00:01:31]
So I do not know what the outcome of that may be. But in view of the fact that the
situation is so serious, I feel that that's the least that I can do, to inform concerned people
about what is happening for the sake of minimizing the violence and the bloodshed in the
country and bringing about what I believe to be a more just dispensation. [applause]
DONALD TYE: Yes, ma'am?
[00:02:05]
Q: Two questions. Can you tell us anything about a commission made up of several
American professors and others led by a Professor Peter Broger and its relationship to the
government in South Africa, firstly. And secondly, what do you make of the meeting
between white business leaders and the ANC leaders earlier?
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DONALD TYE: Would you, sir, describe– the first question we'll start with. Would you
describe the commission led by Peter Broger and its relationship to the political issues in
South Africa? And then when that's through, then we'll ask the second question.
[00:02:44]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: I do not have enough information to evaluate or to assess what the
outcome of that could be. If I know more of what exactly is entailed, what is in mind, and
what they hope to achieve, then it is possible to assess it. All that I wish to say with
regard to any such an effort, regardless of whether it comes from the United States or any
other part of the world, I think there are two or three primary conditions which have to be
met before any such a meeting or any such a venture could be seen to be meaningful or
successful.
[00:03:21]
First of all, that if such a group of people coming to south Africa does not put themselves
in touch with the relevant black leadership in the trade unions, in the UDF, in the other
bodies, in the women's organizations, amongst the students and elsewhere, there is no
point in trying to gain their information from the other sources and believe that that is
going to be in any way reliable and meaningful.
[00:03:51]
And secondly, I believe it is of vital importance that, for the information that they wish to
have, that they should certainly not rely themselves purely on the press, purely on your
government sources, or purely on the sources of your white community. And therefore,
we would gladly place ourselves at the disposal of any individual or organization who
would wish to come to the offices of the SACC. Because there we would be able to share
with them in depth with the information of what is happening in the country. And not
only with regard to the facts, but also with regard to putting them in touch with people
themselves who have been the victims, the victims of police brutality, of army brutality,
the victims, for instance, children and mothers. We have 700, 800 children in Soweto
simply being grabbed by the police, thrown in prison for two nights, and then released
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after that. To experience something of that and to understand something of the agony and
the pain and then the anger on the part of the mothers and fathers to say, "What on earth
is happening? Why is this a way in which people are acting against our children?" And
we would gladly wish to do that.
It's only that personal experience where you are faced, where you are confronted with the
agony and the pain and the anger and the feelings of the people, only then that you begin
to realize what in fact apartheid is doing to our whole society.
Q: The second question is, what do you make of the meeting between business leaders
and the ANC earlier this week?
DONALD TYE: What do you make, sir, of the meeting between the ANC and the
business leaders? And would you describe, please, what the ANC is.
[00:05:46]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: The ANC is the banned political organization, African National
Congress, which was banned in 1960. From 1912 to 1960, when in 1912, the African
National Congress was established, it was a perfectly legal organization. It had as its
central goal equal and meaningful political rights which the whites enjoyed. It took a very
strong stand in favor of peaceful change. Its leader Albert Lutuli, before his death, was a
very strong exponent of the whole concept of peaceful change. In every respect, the ANC
advocated fundamental change without violence. For 48 years.
[00:06:34]
During that 48 years, as far as I know, there was not a single church in South Africa
which as a church body ever gave any sign of recognition or of support of this body. And
that is why if people in South Africa, if they wax eloquently about peaceful change, my
first question to them would be, Where were your voices when those who struggled for
peaceful change asked for it in vain?
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The ANC was banned in 1960 and went underground and formed its military arm,
Umkhonto we Sizwe, stating clearly that it was forced to turn to arms because of the
increasing repression on the part of the system. The ANC has been operating outside
South Africa, has grown in strength inside South Africa, especially during the last
number of years. Surveys which have been undertaken have proved that the ANC has the
support of certainly two-thirds of the black community of South Africa in its goals and
aims. Perhaps not necessarily in its methods, but certainly in its goals and aims.
[00:07:59]
The headquarters of the ANC at the present moment are in Lusaka. Recently, a number of
top businessmen decided to send a mission to Lusaka in order to consult with the ANC on
their future vision of South Africa. The fact that your business community – in this case it
was mainly English- and Jewish-speaking businessmen, because the Afrikaans-speaking
community was not willing to accompany them – the fact that they decided to do so, I
think, was an implicit proof that the business community looked at the future of the
country and said to themselves, if they did not say it to others, "We have got to look to
the future of the country. We have got to start negotiating with those who may be in a
position of the ones who are going to decide the political future of the country. And those
ones are certainly no longer in Pretoria; they are elsewhere."
[00:09:10]
The outcome of that was interesting from the viewpoint of the businessmen, in which
they felt a very sympathetic response, although a very clear difference of opinion on a
number of matters. They were impressed by the very, very well-informed way in which
the ANC was informed about the situation in South Africa. They were impressed by the
arguments which were used, by the stand which was taken by the ANC leadership, by the
indications of what the ANC felt was necessary in order to bring about fundamental
change.
I do not know whether there's any other further outcome to that, but I believe that paved
the way for the Progressive Federal Party to go two weeks afterwards also to visit the
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ANC and to see whether it would be possible to come to an understanding of the political
future of the country.
[00:10:06]
Then a number of Afrikan students from Stellenbosch wanted also to go and visit the
ANC. Under the leadership of a white minister of the white Dutch Reformed Church in
Stellenbosch, where upon PW Botha immediately clamped down and removed their
passports and denied them the opportunity to go to Lusaka.
[00:10:28]
I think that was a clear indication of the growing fear on the part of the government; that
the ANC was gaining in such power and popularity that it was time simply to call a halt. I
do not believe that is going to make any substantial difference, because there is no
possibility of the political future of South Africa to be decided without the ANC being
meaningfully included in all the negotiations. It is not possible. And anybody who is
going to try to do that is going to meet with failure after failure.
DONALD TYE: Sir, over here, on the far right, please.
Q: In September, the US Secretary of State George Shultz justified the administration's
policy of constructive engagement by saying this was necessary to maintain American
influence with white South Africa which held the key to change. Can you comment on
that statement? Can you tell us how the black majority refused constructive engagement?
DONALD TYE: Would you comment on Secretary of State's Shultz's policy of
constructive engagement, please.
BEYERS NAUDÉ: Yes, gladly. It is neither constructive, nor meaningful engagement.
It is destructive from the viewpoint of our struggle for liberation, and it is not going to be
an engagement, but it's certainly going to be a confrontation, which will leave us in a
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situation much more serious and severe than we are at the present moment. And let me
explain why.
[00:12:12]
Because the Reagan administration has time and again stated that what it is trying to do is
in order to assist the white government to bring about meaningful reform. How long has
the policy of constructive engagement been pursued in South Africa? Four years? Five
years? Looking back on that period, what in fact has it produced? From the viewpoint of
the black community, further repression, greater anger, more resistance, less meaningful
involvement with a view to a solution of justice. In fact, it has gone further. It has clearly
strengthened the hands of the government of PW Botha to know that when there is a
crisis and when the crunch comes, they in the last sense can continue to depend on the
support of the Reagan administration.
[00:13:28]
The same argument and the same conviction holds with regard to the British government.
And that is why when reluctantly your President came to at least recognize the need
under pressure for certain limited form of sanctions, the Commonwealth was able to force
Maggie Thatcher at least to accept the same.
[00:13:55]
But I have to say this, friends – and I say this with a deep love for the United States and
for much which I deeply respect in your society, in your life, in your outlook – I think
you should be aware of the fact that the feelings of anger and of bitterness in the hearts of
millions of blacks, not only towards the policy of constructive engagement, but also
towards the Americans as such, in the hearts of millions of blacks, those feelings run very
deep and very strong as negative feelings of the lack of the necessary support.
I know that you may respond by saying, "Yes, but please, they should distinguish
between those of us who disagree." I understand that. But from their viewpoint, most of
what they experience coming from the United States is a clear, visible sign of the support
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of the policy which they feel is a strengthening of PW Botha's position in order to
entrench apartheid further and stronger.
[00:15:21]
And when that is further strengthened by the visit of somebody like Jerry Falwell, who
comes to South Africa, who is given wide publicity, has an audience with a state
president, and who belongs along two journalists who are given the permission to go and
interview Nelson Mandela, which is not given to anybody else, and then comes back with
a report which cannot be identified, and cannot be pursued to be seen to what degree it's
been correct, because these were from notes, and Nelson Mandela is not in a position to
respond to say whether in fact he did say what he said and he did say it in the context in
which it was published in the Washington Times, then you get the anger of the black
community and they say, "If this is what we receive on the part of those who comes in the
name of the government of the United States, we don't want them."
[00:16:16]
Please, friends, for the sake of America's wellbeing and honor and good name, do not
export these convictions and these kind of actions to South Africa. We don't want them
and we don't need them. [applause]
AUDIENCE: Is the Reverend opposed to direct investment in black housing, education
and social services? And also, what advice would he have for a young South African
who's facing military service and is opposed to apartheid?
DONALD TYE: Are you opposed to direct investment in social services, sir? And also,
what comments would you have to a young South African who's facing military service?
[00:17:15]
BEYERS NAUDÉ: I should say that as far as the SACC's concerned, we've made it
very clear that we have never been opposed to any meaningful investment in social
services, in housing, in the promotion of education of your blacks in order to train them
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and equip them for their position of leadership. But the problem was in the past, that is
not what investment was all about. Investment was there in order to gain more profit, and
the profits then to be again taken out of South Africa, or many of them. Whereas, there
was very little of that concern in order to promote that. It was only when the pressures
started being applied that all of a sudden these interests came there to be. But certainly,
we need every form of support with regard to what is meaningful in order to promote the
whole process of liberation.
[00:18:08]
The second question, conscription. During the period of my banning of seven years, I
embarked upon a service of pastoral counseling of many people, one at a time. I could
never see more than one person at a time. And I spent many hours with many young
people – I'm talking about young whites – who were deeply troubled about the whole
situation of conscription and who felt that to them it was a matter of conscience whether
they should proceed. I had to point out to them that basically there were three options:
One was to undertake the military service and face the consequences for themselves,
whether they could do that or not. The second was to refuse to do so and face a six-year
sentence in prison. The third was to leave the country.
[00:19:07]
I never felt that I had the right to say to a young person, "Go to prison." How dare I do
that? I never felt that I had the right to tell somebody, "Leave the country." What I did do
was that I said to them, "If you feel that you can serve and enter and do your national
service with the full consequences of what that entails, calling you up at some stage into a
black township where you may be called upon to shoot a young black, it's up to you to
decide what you have to do."
[00:19:50]
The result is, of the whole situation in South Africa with regard to conscription, that
many young whites have left the country. We don't know how many. And they're
continuing to leave. I don't condemn them, I don't blame them. Because many of them
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have said, "We are not prepared to waste six years of our precious young lives in jail, and
that for nothing." Those who have decided and opted to go to jail, I have said, "I deeply
respect you." Because I do not believe that this is a waste of time. Although I understand
that there will be those who say, "We are not prepared to do that."
[00:20:36]
But it has created a tremendous problem. And that is why there was a new group which
started a year ago of which I am one of the patrons, called the End Conscription
Campaign, a campaign to call upon the government and the authorities to say, "Stop the
whole system of conscription. Allow young people to choose freely. Then to form an
alternative service and not to go into the army." In any case, not as long as apartheid has
to be defended. But it has created a tremendous agony and struggle of conscience in the
minds of many, many young whites in South Africa.
And I'm afraid that that is part of the whole terrible tragedy of our country, where a
situation is being created where thousands of young people are being asked to defend the
indefensible.
DONALD TYE: Yes, sir, in the yellow shirt, right there? Or ma'am, I'm sorry.
AUDIENCE: What role do you see Chief Gatsha Buthelezi and Inkatha playing in your
integration struggle there?
BEYERS NAUDÉ: The question is, what is happening with regard to Chief Gatsha
Buthelezi and Inkatha. Inkatha is the movement, the liberation movement of Chief
Buthelezi. I'll explain.
[00:22:01]
May I explain for those of you who may perhaps not have the necessary information that
Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi is the hereditary chief of the Zulu Tribe of South Africa,
which is the largest single black tribe in South Africa, with approximately five-and-a-half
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million Zulu followers? He has established a number of years ago what he termed a
liberation movement called Inkatha in order to build up the sense of cultural pride and
service in the Zulu community.
[00:22:36]
Recently, there have been a number of very painful and deeply regrettable clashes of
followers of Inkatha in Natal between them [OMISSION]
DONALD TYE: –behalf of the Ford Hall Forum, we'd like to thank Reverend Naudé.
[applause]
END OF RECORDING
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�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
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Ford Hall Forum
Language
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English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
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<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
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0:59:00
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Dublin Core
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Identifier
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MS113.0036-0037
Title
A name given to the resource
Beyers Naudé's speech at the Ford Hall Forum, "South Africa," Parts 1 and 2 (audio recording and transcript)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
20 October 1985
Description
An account of the resource
Reverend Beyers Naudé, an Afrikaner and General Secretary of the South African Council of Churches, discusses the future of apartheid in South Africa.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Naudé, Beyers
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0036-0037
Language
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English
Type
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Sound recording
Sound recordings
Format
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MP3
Subject
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Forums (Discussion and debate)
Ford Hall Forum
Apartheid -- South Africa
Relation
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Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
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Copyright Ford Hall Forum. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Black history
Ford Hall Forum
New American Gazette
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/99e3f56140a4774faf587b660d60b792.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=VtVQkrNo4CMa8l25jqxYKXYTY4oltnafbJl7jjyXkmX88ciWOaGp9gmsQUPDgzpawFF1Tm4gSmu9Cy%7EMg278hlqjfj1uDEb1Hg9F%7EiAW6iBJHS7AgkzDhrMhp4QOoHBdvB1Gi2FKG1vqelkBpCri4V96Nvlunbxe9iuO3ZQUGEF1aaLOm6T61EH5e3NGcucD-MynFmBdurTXHIsIks-gDd8s49KHIfQFmA72rKLnxfFkBBZdwnufMt01gecWxyCgDTiUA9FV%7EEfao7GUvD1YhqtcgkiQvfhj1RS3t4j%7EINHnQQ5ivdJY4lip7iaOPuRakgu8MQ6puNiug8keskJrig__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
8c6a4a3d9e874974a8dd4ad449db2ef1
PDF Text
Text
Calvin Coolidge Press Conference
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: Calvin Coolidge Press Conference transcript.
Recording Date: circa 1933
Speakers: Coolidge, Calvin
Item Information: Calvin Coolidge Press Conference. Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013
(MS113.3.1, items 0001-0002) Moakley Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: audio recording and transcript available at http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Recording Summary:
Transcription of a press conference given by former President Calvin Coolidge; the exact date
and place are unknown. Coolidge discusses at length his family, growing up in Vermont, and his
early political career in Massachusetts including the Boston Police Strike of 1919 – his handling
of which catapulted him into national politics. He later discusses his presidency, aspects of
Herbert Hoover’s presidency and life after the White House.
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�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
Transcript Begins
INTRODUCER: Ladies and gentlemen, the 30th President of the United States. [applause]
CALVIN COOLIDGE: Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Is everyone in now? I am reminded that I
once did a good deal of wondering whether I would be able to be helpful to you members of the
press in these conferences that we have, and especially as to whether I wouldn't find it more or
less of a bore on my part and not particularly pleasant. Well, I haven't found it that way at all. In
fact, I have come to rather look forward to having you come in here twice a week in order that I
may talk to you and give you something of an idea of what it is I think the government is trying
to do, and to satisfy you, insofar as I can, on the questions that you ask. I have a great many
questions here today. I have found in the course of a long public life that the things I did not say
ever hurt me. [laughter]
Maybe I'll talk about patriotism. Everybody seems to be for it.
Am I related to the Boston Coolidge’s? They say no. [laughter]
[00:01:51]
Everybody that has a cause wants me to make a speech. Political strategy. You know, there is
only one form of political strategy in which I have any faith, and that is to try to do the right
thing, and sometimes to be able to succeed.
[00:02:12]
Now, there is one report going around about what I intend to do when I finish being President,
and all these reports have been made entirely without any consultation with me. But there is this
one report, and I hesitate to spoil anything like a good newspaper story, but I am having sent to
me quite a number of jackknives. Now, I don't recall that I ever said I plan to devote myself to
the occupation of whittling when I finish being President. I did some when I was a boy, but I
haven't devoted myself to that for a considerable number of years now. I hesitate to spoil
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�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
anything like a good newspaper story, but, as I say, I don't want to be accused of acquiring
property under false pretenses.
[00:03:10]
What did my father think when I became President? Well, I'll tell you what he thought; when I
became Vice President he said, "I think you'll do fairly well. [laughter] He did fairly well as
governor of Massachusetts; I think he'll do fairly well as Vice President. And he probably
thought the same thing when I became President; he didn't tend to change his mind too much on
matters of that sort. [laughter]
My father always said that I could get more sap out of a maple tree than any other boy around.
He said that was my gift. [laughter] [mic problems]
[00:04:23]
I recall the very first time that I ever heard anyone speak using one of those [mic problems] and
they caused as much trouble on that occasion as they do at present. [laughter/applause] On that
occasion it was at President Harding's inauguration. I remember somebody in the crowd said to
me, "Isn't that amplifier that Harding is using a marvelous thing?" I said, "Oh, yes, indeed it is.
But what he most needs is a condenser." [laughter/applause]
[00:05:08]
I have an inquiry here about the real Calvin Coolidge, the man behind the myth. Well, I don't
know. Maybe there isn't anybody. [laughter] I was born on the 4th day of July, 1872, in the town
of Plymouth, Vermont, in a five-room, story-and-a-half cottage attached to the post office and
the general store, which my father was proprietor of. Now, our house was well shaded with
maple trees and had a yard in front enclosed with a picket fence, in which grew a mountain ash, a
plum tree, and the customary purple lilac bushes. In the summertime, my mother planted her
flower bed there.
My sister Abbie was born in the same house in April of 1875, and we lived there until the place
was bought across the road, which had a few acres of land with a house, a number of barns and a
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blacksmith shop. And some very fine apple trees. I think the price paid was $375. Almost at
once, the principal barn was sold for $300, to be moved away. My father was a good trader
[laughter] like his father and his father before him.
[00:06:56]
My grandfather, Calvin Galusha Coolidge, was a spare man, over six feet tall, of a nature that
caused people to confide in him, and of a character which made him a constant choice for public
office. His mother, her family, showed a marked trace of Indian blood. I never saw her, but he
took me one time to see her sister, his very aged aunt, whom we found sitting in the chimney
corner, smoking a clay pipe. Well, you know, that was so uncommon that I always remembered
it. I thought tobacco was only for men. Of course, I had seen old ladies outside our neighborhood
buy snuff at the store.
My grandfather was a man who delighted in practical jokes. He would lead a man into a nest of
bees and make him think that he went there of his own accord. [laughter] He was never much of
one for hunting for fishing, but loved to raise colts and puppies. He kept peacocks; had a yard
and a garden filled with scarlet flowers. Never cared, as I say, to hunt or fish, but he did raise
some very, very fine horses. He taught me to ride standing up behind him when I was five years
old.
[00:08:33]
Well, my grandmother Coolidge, she spun woolen yarn from the sheep that we raised, and she
knitted stockings and mittens. I have seen her weave cloth. My grandfather Coolidge had a blue
woolen frock that came from her loom, and it was a most convenient garment for that region. It
was cut like a shirt going on over the head with these flaps that reached down to the knees. In
later years, I liked to wear the one that he left, but when news pictures began to be taken of me
there, it was generally assumed among the public that this was supposed to be a makeup
costume. [laughter] Which it was not. So I have since been obliged to forego the comfort of
wearing it. In public life, in order to appear really natural, it is sometimes necessary to be
actually artificial. [laughter]
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[00:09:49]
It seems to me impossible that any man could adequately describe his mother. I cannot describe
mine. She bore the name of two empresses, Victoria Josephine. There was a touch of mysticism
and poetry in her nature that made her love to gaze at the purple sunsets and watch the evening
stars. Whatever was grand or beautiful in form and color attracted her. It seemed to me as though
the rich green tints of the foliage and the blossoms of the flowers came for her in the springtime.
And in the autumn it was for her that the mountainsides were struck with crimson and with gold.
She was of a very light and fair complexion with a rich growth of brown hair that had a glint of
gold in it. Her hands and features were regular and finely modeled. The older people always told
me how beautiful she had been in her youth, but she was practically an invalid ever after I could
remember her, but used what strengths she had in lavish care upon me and my sister Abbie, who
was three years younger.
[00:11:13]
When she knew that her end was near, she called us children to her bedside and we knelt down to
receive her final parting blessing. In an hour, she was gone. It was her 39th birthday. I was 12
years old. We laid her away in the blustering snows of March. The greatest grief that can come to
a boy came to me. Life was never to seem the same again.
Five years later, and 41 years later, almost to the day, my sister Abby and my father followed
her. It always seemed to me that the boy I lost was her image. They all rest together on the
sheltered hillside among five generations of the Coolidge family.
[00:12:31]
You know, they always intended to name me John Coolidge for my father, but they always
called me Calvin, so the John became discarded. If there was any physical requirement of
country life that my father could not perform, I do not know what it is. From watching him and
assisting him, I gained an intimate knowledge of all that kind of work. The best buggy he had for
20 years was one he built himself. The lines he laid out were true and straight, and the curves
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regular. The work he did endured. You know, a lot of people in Plymouth can't understand how I
ever got to be President. [laughter] Least of all my father. [laughter]
[00:13:34]
He opened the old blacksmith shop which stood on the farm, and he hired a large-framed
powerful man with a black beard, said to be sometimes quarrelsome. But he was always kind to
me, letting me fuss around the shop, and in hoeing time leaving his own row to do two or three
hills for me, or favoring me in some way in the hayfield as he helped out there in the busy times.
He always pitched the hay up on to the ox cart and I raked after. If I was getting behind, he
slowed up a little. He was a big-hearted man. I wish I could see that blacksmith again.
[00:14:33]
I started to school when I was five years old. The little stone school house had unpainted benches
and desks and was attended by about 25 scholars. Few, if any, of my teachers reached the
standards now required by all public schools. They qualified by examination before the town
superintendent. I first took this examination and passed it when I was 13. [laughter] My sister
Abbie passed it and she taught a term of school in a neighboring town when she was 12 years
old.
The common school subjects were taught, with grammar and United States history, so that, as I
say, when I was 13 I had mastered them all and I went to Black River Academy, at Ludlow. And
that is about 12 miles from Plymouth. You know, that was one of the greatest events of my life.
[00:15:42]
The packing for it required more time and attention than preparation for leaving the White
House. [laughter] I counted the hours until it was time to go. My whole outfit went easily into
these two small handbags that lay on the straw in the sleigh beside the fatted calf that was
starting to market. The winter snow lay on the ground. The weather was well below freezing. In
my eagerness these counted for nothing. I had on my best clothes and wore shoes with rubbers,
because in Ludlow, they had sidewalks. Nobody could have made me believe that I should never
be so innocent or so happy again.
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[00:16:40]
I remember my father said to me, he said, "Calvin, if you're a good boy and study hard, some
day, maybe, you'll get to Boston." [laughter] "But this calf here is going to get there before you."
[laughter]
As we rounded the brow of the hill – goodbye, Abbie! – and the first rays of the morning sun
streamed over our backs and lighted up the glistening snow ahead, I was perfectly certain that I
was traveling out of the darkness into the light.
[00:17:36]
Going to Black River Academy was my first great adventure in life. I shall never forget the
impression it made on me. You know, it was the same when I left for college, and when I went to
Boston to begin a public career there, and when I was called to Washington to become Vice
President, and finally when I was called to the White House. Going to the Black River Academy
meant a complete break with the past among unknown scenes and unknown people.
[00:18:25]
Well, Abbie died while we were students together at Black River Academy. Appendicitis was
not well understood in 1890. I stayed beside her until she passed to join our mother. The memory
of her presence and her dignified devotion to the right shall always abide with me.
It was at Black River Academy that I had my first acquaintance with the Constitution of the
United States and the study of it, which I then began. It has never ceased, and the more I have
studied it, the more I am convinced that no other document devised by the hand of man has ever
brought so much happiness to people. Well, my class at Black River was such a small one that
we could all take part in the graduation ceremonies.
[00:19:30]
And I wrote to my father, "I hope you are feeling better. And when I heard from you last, my
oration is all done and about then the subject is, Oratory in History. Mr. Sherman said it is the
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best one that he has seen, but I suppose he was flattering me. I am having a very good time here
this spring, but will be glad when I can go home and be with you. It is lonesome here. The 19th
century is slipping away. We are to live in the scientific age of the 20th century and must prepare
for it now. I am from the country and am glad of it, but I do not always want to remain a rustic in
my ideas and in my appearance. I have improved some and I know the untiring self-denial of
those who have given me the opportunity for culture and education. I hope I may always
remember it, to make the most of it. With love, Calvin Coolidge"
[00:20:45]
In accordance with custom at Amherst College, three members of the graduating class were
chosen by popular vote to speak at the commencement. To me was assigned the Grove oration
which according to immemorial practice always dealt with the class record in a humorous way:
Gentlemen of the Class of '95: It may not be such a misfortune to be out of college. It is not
proof positive that a diploma is a wolf because it comes to you in sheep's clothing. [laughter] But
whatever we are, wherever we go, degreed or disagreed [laughter], we are going to be Amherst
men.
Well, my effort was not without some success. I went home that summer and it was my last
summer of work on the farm. And I learned that there was an opening in the law office of
Hammond and Field in Northampton, and I applied, and I was accepted.
My first Christmas in Northampton was made more merry for me by the knowledge that I had
won the first prize in a contest sponsored by the Sons of the American Revolution. And the
subject of this essay-writing contest was "The Principles Fought for in the American
Revolution." And the prize was a gold medal worth about $150. Well, Mr. Field, Judge Field of
the law office of Hammond and Field, he saw the item in the newspaper about that, and he said,
"Is this you?" And I said yes. And I opened up the drawer of my desk and I said, "Here is the
medal, here." And he looked at it and he said, "Well, have you told your father yet?" I said, "No.
Do you think I ought to?" [laughter] See, my father had made some speculation as to whether or
not I was making anything of myself with my education, and I wanted to give him some concrete
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proof that in fact I was. I was a little bit flattered to have him read it in the newspapers for
himself. Which he did.
[00:23:44]
It was expected that my studies for the law would take a couple of years, but I managed to
complete my studies in less than that, and in 1897, just before my birthday, on the 4th of July, I
made application to be admitted to practice before the courts of the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts and I was duly admitted. Only after I was in possession of my certificate had I
notified my father. I was very happy and very pleased with the results.
I worked hard for those first several years in Northampton and didn't take the time to visit my old
home in Plymouth, but when I did go but when I did go, I was City Solicitor. I had been able to
make some small savings, and I suppose after a time I began to want a home of my own.
[00:24:54]
After she had finished her course at the University of Vermont, Miss Grace Goodhue came to
Northampton to take the training at the Clarke School to enable her to teach the deaf. After she
had been there for a time, I met her and often took her to places of entertainment. From our being
together, we naturally seemed to come to care for one another.
In 1904, I had my first ride in an automobile. And of course, I thought it was marvelous thing to
ride in a horseless carriage, but of course I knew that they wouldn't amount to anything.
[laughter] I have never been gifted with intuition. [laughter]
[00:25:53]
In 1904, Northampton celebrated its 250th anniversary and one evening was devoted to a
reception for the governor and his council, sponsored by the Daughters of the American
Revolution. Well, Miss Goodhue accompanied me to the City Hall and after we had strolled
around for a time, we sat down in two very comfortable vacant chairs. Soon a charming lady
approached us and she said that those chairs were for the Governor and Mrs. Bates and that we
should have to relinquish them, which we did. Well, Miss Goodhue accompanied me to my
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home in Plymouth, Vermont, that summer. And my Aunt Meade met her and she said to me,
"Calvin that seems like a likely gal." [laughter] "Why don't you marry her?" I said, "Maybe I
will, Grandma." Maybe I will, Grandma! [laughter]
[00:27:22]
Miss Goodhue took the rest of her vacation at her home in Burlington, Vermont. I was not
expected there, but one day I paid a visit. Mr. Goodhue enquired, Did I have some business in
Burlington. [laughter] "No." [laughter] "I've come up to marry Grace." [laughter] He enquired,
Had I spoken to her yet? [laughter] "No." [laughter] "I can't wait a few days if it's any
convenience to you."]
[00:28:23]
Well, I have seen so much fiction written on this subject that I suppose I shall be pardoned for
stating the plain facts. We thought we were made for each other. For almost a quarter of a
century she has borne with my infirmities and I have rejoiced in her graces.
Mrs. Goodhue was not in favor of our union, and in fact she put many, many obstacles in my
path. In fact, she said that her daughter had been attending all these institutions of learning and
she was not properly skilled in the domestic arts, so didn't I think that it would perhaps be best if
we would delay our wedding for a year because, if we did, she would undertake to teach Grace
how to bake bread. [laughter] I told her that we could buy bread. [laughter] We were married at
her parents' home in Burlington in October of 1905. It rained on our wedding day. I didn't care.
[laughter] So long as I got the girl. Oh, yes.
[00:30:03]
Years later when I had received sufficient of the electoral returns to show that I had been chosen
governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I turned to Mrs. Coolidge and I said, "Well,
Mother, the Daughters of the American Revolution cannot put us out of the Governor's chair
now." [laughter] She has kept me running for office ever since. [laughter]
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There was perhaps some foundation to Mrs. Goodhue's contention that her daughter was not
skilled in the domestic arts. [laughter] I am reminded that perhaps on more than one occasion I
might have remarked that perhaps the road commissioner would be interested to know the recipe
for my wife's pie crust. [laughter]
[00:31:08]
We spent a week in Montreal and then we returned to Northampton and began housekeeping.
The days passed quietly with us until the next autumn, when we moved into the house in
Massasoit Street that was to be our home for so long. It was a duplex, a two-family house, and I
attended to the furnishing of it myself. And when it was we walked over to it on a September
evening. And in about a week's time, our first boy came to us. The fragrance of the clematis
which covered the bay where the mother lay with her baby window filled the room like a
benediction. It all seemed very wonderful to us. We named him John in honor of my father.
[00:32:08]
That winter, I was nominated for school committeeman. It was the only election I ever lost.
[laughter] My neighbor said that he had voted for my Democratic opponent, a fellow named
Kennedy. [laughter] John Kennedy. My neighbor had voted for my Democratic opponent John
Kennedy because he felt that school committeemen should have children in the public schools.
He might have given me a little time. [laughter] Of course, in a town the size of Northampton, I
knew John Kennedy. John Kennedy was a friend of mine. John J. Kennedy, duly elected member
of the Northampton school committee.
[00:33:23]
Soon, I continued with my law practice. And I had an opportunity, since I was not serving on the
school committee, there was an opening in the House, Massachusetts House, and I ran, and I was
elected. And I took with me to Boston in 1907 a letter from a Senator in my district to the
Speaker of the House. And the note said: "This will introduce the new man from my district,
Calvin Coolidge. Like a singed cat, he is better than he looks." [laughter]
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With me as a freshman legislator in that body of the House was a very interesting gentleman I
came to know quite well, James Michael Curley. I stayed at the Adams House on Washington
Street, took a room, it was a dollar a room, that faced on an inner air shaft. I returned to that
room many times over the years ahead.
[00:34:46]
In a letter to my father, May 13, 1908 – I had served two terms in the House and there seemed to
be an opportunity to run for mayor of the city of Northampton, and I took that opportunity –
"Dear Father, John and Grace and our new baby are in fine shape. Grace is up and caring for the
babies now herself. John is very fond of the baby and he keeps saying, 'baby, baby, baby.' He
pats him on the head and tries to give him some cookies. We have not named him yet. Running
as mayor, the nearer I got to my home and office the better I ran, and it was the opposite with the
other fellow. At least 400 Democrats voted for me. Their leaders can't see why they did it.
[laughter] I know why. They knew I had done things for them, bless their honest Irish hearts.
[laughter] Your son, Calvin Coolidge"
You know, without in any way being aware of what I was doing, I then became committed to a
course that was to make me the second officer of the Commonwealth and of the nation and the
chief executive of a city, a state and the country. I did not plan for it, but it came. I was ready
from the time the justices named me clerk of courts until my party nominated me for President.
[00:36:44]
I was not transported on any bed of roses. This was all the result of many a hard political struggle
in which I made many mistakes and was to go on making them up through the present hour, and
expect to continue to make them as long as I shall live. We are all fallible, but experience ought
to teach us not to repeat our errors.
[00:37:15]
I had been a member of the House of Representatives, mayor of Northampton, and I was state
Senator, president of the Massachusetts Senate. In 1914, there was a spirit of radicalism that
prevailed, which, unless checked, it looked to me like it was going to prove to be very
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destructive. In taking my chair as president of the Massachusetts State Senate, I therefore made a
short address. I argued that the government could not free us from toil, that large concerns are
necessary for the progress in which labor and capital all have a common interest. And I defended
representative government. This speech has since been known as "Have Faith in Massachusetts."
[00:38:20]
After serving as president of the Senate, I became lieutenant governor, and then in 1919
governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Now, the trouble arose over the proposal of
the police to affiliate and form a union. Now, that was contrary to a long-standing rule of the
department that was agreed to by each member before he came on the force and had the effect of
law. When the policemen's union persisted in its course, I was urged by a committee appointed
by the mayor to intervene and attempt to make Commissioner Curtis settle this dispute through
arbitration.
Now, I did not see how it was possible to arbitrate the question of the authority of the law, or of
the necessity of obedience to the rules of the department. I had no general responsibility for
police matters in Boston; yet, as chief executive it was my general duty to require the laws to be
enforced.
[00:39:45]
When it became apparent that the policemen's union was acting in violation of the rules of the
department, its leaders were brought before the commissioner on charges, tried and removed
from office, whereat about three-quarters of the force left the department in a body on the
evening of Tuesday, September 9, 1919. This number was much larger than had been
anticipated. Around midnight, bands of men appeared on the street, who broke shop windows
and carried away quantities of the goods that were on display. I knew nothing of this until
morning.
[00:40:33]
The disorder of Tuesday night was most reprehensible, but it was only an incident. I have always
felt that I should have called out the State Guard as soon as the police left their posts. The
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commissioner did not feel this was necessary. You know, the mayor of Boston had the same
authority to call out all the Guard in the city of Boston. It would be rather unusual for a Governor
to act except on the request of the local authorities. If no disorder existed, it would have been
rather a violent assumption that one was threatened. But it could have been made. Probably
would have saved some property, but would have not have settled any issue. The issue was not
where the disorder of Tuesday night focused public attention on it, and showed just what it
meant to have a police force that did not obey orders.
[00:41:45]
In the morning, I learned that the Mayor had called out the State Guard to report that afternoon.
And he requested me to furnish more troops. I called out the entire State Guard and ordered them
to report at once. In a few hours, they were patrolling the streets with bayonets fixed. There was
little more trouble from disorder.
[00:42:11]
I soon learned that the mayor had placed a Guard officer in command and had virtually
superseded, displaced Commissioner Curtis, who came to me in great distress. Now, if he was to
be superseded, I thought the men that he had discharged might be taken back and the cause lost. I
consulted the law as is my custom. And I soon found a general statute that gives the governor the
authority to call on any police officer to assist him. I knew what to do.
You know, they tell me I have a poker face. [laughter] I think I know what they mean. The strike
occurred on Tuesday night, the Guard were called Wednesday, and on Thursday I issued a
General Order restoring Mr. Curtis to his place as commissioner and made a general
proclamation calling on all citizens to assist me in preserving order.
[00:43:24]
I cannot replace Commissioner Curtis; I did not appoint him. You ask that I reemploy these same
men while they persist in disobedience to the rules of Massachusetts. Nineteen men have been
discharged. Others, having abandoned their duty, have, under the law, been declared vacant.
There is no right to strike against the public safety by anybody, anytime, anywhere.
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No doubt it was the police strike of Boston that brought me to national prominence. That
furnished the occasion and I took advantage of it.
[00:44:18]
Well, I, of course, thought that was the end of my political career in the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, but it was not the case, for I was reelected to the office of governor of the
Commonwealth. In 1920, there came to be some consideration of me for President in 1919, but
of course, I would not use the office of the governor to run for another [laughter]
At the convention in Chicago in 1920, the senior Senator from Massachusetts, Senator Henry
Cabot Lodge, at one point he had looked with some favor on my being nominated for President,
but on this occasion, for his own reasons, he said that he would not nominate me for President.
He said, "Nominate a man who lives in a two-family house? No." [laughter] "Massachusetts is
not for him." It may be that Senator Henry Cabot Lodge was or was not gifted with intuition.
[00:45:43]
In 1920, that Republican convention was largely under the domination of a coterie of United
States Senators, who maneuvered it into adopting a platform and nominating a President in ways
that were not satisfactory to a majority of the delegates. So when the same forces undertook for a
third time to dictate the action of the convention in naming a Vice President, the delegates broke
away and literally stampeded to me. Now, I did not wish to be Vice President, but my name was
placed in nomination.
[00:46:27]
I was at the Adams House in Boston when I received the telephone call informing me I had been
nominated. Grace was there visiting me that weekend, and she said, "Well, you're not going to
take it, are you?" I said, "Well, I suppose I'll have to." [laughter] I was pleased to accept. It was
especially agreeable to me to be associated with Senator Warren G. Harding, whom I knew well
and liked.
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[00:47:03]
Well, I campaigned in the South, campaigned in Maine and throughout New England. And in
November, of course, I returned to Northampton to cast my vote. In a letter to my father, I told
him, "The campaign is over. Some mistakes are made, always are, I suppose. But the ones this
year were so foolish I do not see how they could have been made by men trying to elect the
ticket. I am home today. Came home yesterday. Grace and the boys are well. Your dog is well.
She has been the ice man, the milk man and the grocer man. It is good to have some way to get
even with them for the highest prices. [laughter] I wonder if anyone sent you the Boston Globe.
They are running the life of me just now. Most of it is fiction, of course. [laughter] So you might
like to read it."
Well, the time soon came for us to go to Washington. When I became Vice President, it was my
intention to attend to the affairs of my office and to avoid speaking. But the pressure to speak is
constant and intolerable. However, I resisted most of it.
[00:48:48]
Grace was wonderfully popular there. I don't know what I would have done without her. Of
course, there is no residence provided for the Vice President, so we took up accommodations in
the Willard Hotel. Which were very adequate for our uses. I recall on one occasion there was a
fire at the Willard, and all the guests were required to go down to the street. And it soon became
apparent to everyone that there was no great danger, and I wanted to go back up to my room.
And I started on my way, and one of the firemen called out and said, "Wait a minute, you come
back here! Who are you anyway?" [laughter] I said, "Well, I am the Vice President." And he
said, "Oh, all right." [laughter] And I started on up to my room and he called out yet again and
said, "Wait a minute! Vice President of what?" [laughter] I told him, I was Vice President of the
United States. He said, "Well, you come right back down here. I thought you were vice president
of the hotel." [laughter]
[00:50:17]
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The amount of dining out that the Vice President does is greatly exaggerated. And like
everything else that's sent out of Washington for public consumption, reports are vastly
exaggerated. And besides, you have to eat somewhere. [laughter]
[00:50:45]
Presiding over the Senate was fascinating to me. I was informed and instructed by the debate.
And I soon learned that the Senate has but one fixed rule, which is that the Senate will do
whatever it wants to do whenever it wants to do it.
[00:51:20]
In the spring of 1923, [OMISSION] was a very heavy grief to him, perhaps it was more than he
could bear. I never saw him again. In June, he started on a journey to Alaska, and eternity.
I was at the home of my father in Plymouth, Vermont, on the night of August 2, 1923. I was
awakened by my father coming up the stairs calling my name. His voice trembled. I knew that
something of the greatest nature had occurred. He placed in my hands an official report. He had
been the first to address me as President for President Harding had passed away.
[00:52:21]
The oath of office was taken in what we always called the sitting room by the light of the
kerosene lamp. The Bible that had belonged to my mother lay on the table at hand. I know of no
other case in history where succession comes by election where the qualifying oath of office as
administered by a father to his son. Father was, as you know, a notary public, and it seemed a
simple and natural thing to do at the time. I can now understand something of the dramatic force
of the event.
People will often ask me, what was my first thought when I became President. Well, I thought I
could swing it. [laughter] Mrs. Coolidge and I did, we got down on our knees and we asked God
to bless the American people and to give me the strength to serve them.
[00:53:30]
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
17
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
That morning, when we started for Washington, I turned aside from the main road and I paid a
short visit to the grave of my mother. It had always been a comfort to me to be near her final
resting place when I was a boy, sometimes even in the dead of night. Somehow that morning, she
seemed very near to me.
[00:54:03]
I think what we might do at this point is take maybe a few minutes just to stretch and change
positions. But we're not going to take a great deal of time at all. In fact, they have instructed me
that we should take more than five minutes at the most. So we will at this point have a very short
interval. [applause]
END OF PART ONE (Item ms113.0001)
BEGINNING OF PART TWO (Item ms113.002)
CALVIN COOLIDGE: You know, there are quite a few members of the press that just can't
seem to comprehend what these conferences are for. They simply furnish a background so that if
a reporter desires to write on a subject, they may have the proper information with which to write
their story. I suggest that you exercise more care; remember that these are not interviews and
they are not statements from the White House, but simply information that I give to the press in
order that it may intelligently write reports about the subjects I dwelt on.
[00:01:15]
It has been called to my attention that members of the press are beginning to get a little careless
about quoting the President as a result of these conferences. Of course, it is also a violation of
our understanding to say the White House spokesman said so-and-so and put in quotations on
that. The only thing I am suggesting is that you observe the rule about not quoting the President.
[00:01:51]
Well, after the death of President Harding, the opposing party that it would be a good project to
encourage my party to nominate me, thinking that it would be easy to accomplish my defeat.
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
18
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
[laughter] Well, I do not know if they were wrong in their assessment or if they overdid the
operation because I think they found that they started a groundswell of opinion that they could
not change for in 1924 I was nominated by a vote that was practically unanimous.
However, with the exception of the occasion of my notification, I did not make any duly political
speeches during the campaign. And on the 4th of July in 1924, I wrote to my father: "My dear
Father, this is not a happy day for me. Calvin blistered his toe playing lawn tennis and infection
got into his foot. He seems a little better now at one p.m., but he had a bad night. Of course, he
has all that medical science can give him, but he may have a long sickness. Then again, he may
be better in a day or two. I hope that this is the last time that I shall ever be a candidate for office.
We all send our love. Your son, Calvin Coolidge"
[00:03:50]
He was a boy of much promise, proficient in his studies, with a scholarly mind. He seemed to
have a remarkable insight into things. The day I was made President, he was working in a
tobacco field. One of his friends said, "If my father was President, I wouldn't be working in a
tobacco field." Calvin replied, "If your father was my father, you would." [laughter]
If I had not been President, he wouldn't have been playing tennis on the south grounds. In his
sickness, he asked me to make him better, and I could not. When he went, the power and the
glory of the presidency went with him. I do not know why such a price was exacted for
occupying the White House.
[00:05:14]
My inaugural address in 1925 was the first to be broadcast on radio. I am very fortunate that I
came in with the radio. I can't make an engaging oratorical speech to a crowd as others can. All I
can do is stand up in front of them and talk in a matter-of-fact way about the issues. But I have a
good radio voice and so now I am able to get my messages across to the people without making
any rhetorical flourish in their presence or displaying my lack of oratorical ability.
[00:06:00]
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
19
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
In my second term, there was considerable speculation as to whether I was likely to change or
not. I did not anticipate to change very much. Now, there were two or three others that served
with me in the conduct of the affairs of the United States, and I should have been pleased if they
had changed a little. [laughter] Then I could have changed from saying no to saying yes to them.
[00:06:41]
In August of 1925, I again wrote to my father: "It is two years ago tonight since you woke me to
bring me the news that I was President. It seems a very short time ago. I trust it has been a
satisfaction to you. I think only two or three other fathers have lived to see their sons made
President of the United States. I am sure I came to it very largely by your training and your
example. If that was what you wanted, you have much to be thankful for, that you have lived to
so great an age to see it. Your son, Calvin Coolidge"
1925, in Omaha, Nebraska, I delivered a speech to the American Legion, and I will share a
portion of that with you this evening:
[00:07:51]
The generally expressed desire of "America first" cannot be criticized. It is a perfectly correct
aspiration for our people to cherish. But the problem we have to solve is how to make America
first. It cannot be done by the cultivation of national bigotry, arrogance, or selfishness. Hatreds,
jealousies, and suspicions will not be productive of any benefits in this direction. Here again, we
must apply the rule of toleration. By toleration I do not mean indifference to evil. I mean respect
for different kinds of good. Whether one traces his Americanism back three centuries to the
Mayflower, or three years of the steerage, is not half so important as whether his Americanism is
real and genuine. No matter by what various crafts we came here, we are all now in the same
boat.
[00:09:38]
We must all realize that there are true Americans who did not happen to be born in our section of
the country, who do not attend our place of worship, who are not of our racial stock, or who are
not proficient in our language. We can make little contribution to the welfare of humanity on the
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
20
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
theory that we are a superior people and all others are an inferior people. We do not need to be
too loud in the assertion of our own righteousness. It is true that we live under most favorable
circumstances. But before we come to the final and irrevocable decision that we are better than
everybody else, we need to consider what we might do if we had their provocations or their
difficulties.
[00:10:42]
We are not likely to improve our own condition or help humanity very much until we come to
the sympathetic understanding that human nature is about the same everywhere, that it is rather
evenly distributed over the surface of the earth, and that we are all united in a common
brotherhood.
When you are President, you have to stand every day three or four hours of visitors. Nine-tenths
of them want something they ought not to have. [laughter] I found that if you would just keep
still, after a time they would start to wind down. [laughter] But if you would even cough or
smile, they would start up all over again. [laughter] So as I say, I have found in the course of a
long public career the things I did not say never hurt me. [laughter]
[00:12:19]
In the first day of January in 1926, one of the [OMISSION] I suppose I am the most powerful
man in the world, yet great power does not mean much except great limitations. I cannot have
any freedom, even to go or come. I am only in the clutch of forces that are greater than I am.
Thousands of people are waiting to shake my hand today.
[00:12:58]
"Forty-one years ago, mother lay ill in the same room where you now are. Great changes have
come to us, but I do not think we are any happier, and I am certain not much better. Everybody
tells me how cheerful you are. I can well imagine that you may be. So many loved ones are
waiting for you, so many loving ones are anxious to know about you and eager to hear how you
are. With love, your son, Calvin Coolidge"
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
21
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
It costs a great deal to be President. In my statement to the press, I was careful in my choice of
words – I do not choose to run for President in 1928. There were many who were mystified as to
my meaning. [laughter] The office of the President takes a heavy toll on those who occupy it and
those who are dear to them. I am confident my decision was correct. Even after passing through
the presidential office, it still remains a great mystery to me. We draw our Presidents from the
people. I came from them and I wish to be one of them again.
It has been suggested to me that I have been a candidate in a great many previous elections and
have constantly been elected to something, and that now the only thing I am a candidate for is
retirement. And apparently, I am going to be successful in that.
[00:15:31]
Will I make a speech? I suppose no one knows how I hate making speeches. I would like to
report that there is no foundation to the rumor that I have been offered an opportunity to teach a
course in thrift. [laughter] Yes, a course in thrift at Scotland University of Aberdeen. [laughter]
That would seem to be another false rumor. Which reminds me of an occasion when Governor
Sproul of Pennsylvania came to Northampton when I was nominated as Vice President. And he
told the story about a fellow in Pennsylvania who went out to make a speech in an unfamiliar
part of the city and went down the road. And he was supposed to speak to the spaghetti factory
and he asked this fellow if he knew where the spaghetti factory was. And the man said, no, he
didn't. So Governor Sproul continued on down the street and then the fellow came after him and
he said, "Maybe you mean the noodle factory." And Governor Sproul said, "Well, yes, maybe it
was the noodle factory." And the fellow said, "Well, I don't know where that is either." [laughter]
[00:17:08]
Why did I choose to not run for President in 1928? It seems a pretty good idea to get out while
they still want you. [laughter] Even if I had taken another term, I would have been in
Washington until 1933 – a Vice President for two years; ten years in the White House is longer
than any other man's ever had. Too long.
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
22
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
About the Depression. Well, the most that we can say is that there has been a general lack of
judgment so widespread as to involve practically the whole country. We have learned that we
were not so big as we thought we were. We shall keep nearer to the ground. We shall not feel so
elated, but we shall be so much safer.
[00:18:51]
You know, I've never really grown up. It's a hard thing for me to play this game. When I was a
little fellow, long ago as I can remember, in Plymouth, every time I had to go into the kitchen to
meet strangers, whenever I would hear strange voices in the kitchen, I would have to go through
the door and I'd have to give them a greeting, because that's where the visitors would sit with
Father and Mother. And I must have been five years old or so before I realized I couldn't go on
like that. So now I am all right every time I am around old friends, but every time I meet a
stranger, I've got to go through that old kitchen door back home. And it's not easy.
[00:19:46]
I am reminded of a fellow I knew from Plymouth, Vermont, who went down to, I think it was
Texas, to visit for a time. And while he was down there, he went to a political gathering. And
during the course of the evening, the speaker at this gathering asked for all the Democrats to
raise their hands. And of course, almost everybody put up their hand. Except this fellow from
Plymouth, Vermont.
[00:20:25]
Then the speaker said, "Well, would all the Republicans in this room please stand up?" And of
course, this fellow from Plymouth, Vermont, stood up. And the speaker looked at him and he
said, "Why are you a Republican?" And the fellow from Plymouth said, "Well, you know, my
father was a Republican and my grandfather before him; I suppose that's why I am a
Republican." And the speaker said, "Why, that is no reason at all. If your father or your
grandfather was a horse thief, would that make you one?" And the fellow from Plymouth said,
"No, I suppose in that case I would have been a Democrat." [laughter]
[00:21:30]
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
23
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
My last public speech was at Madison Square Garden in New York City in October of 1933. We
were trying to get this great engineer, Herbert Hoover, another term in office. After my address,
which was broadcast on radio, a lady rushed up to me and she said, "Oh, Mr. Coolidge, what a
marvelous address; I stood up all the way through it." I told her, "So did I." [laughter] She said
that if she could only vote for me, it would be the end of our horrible Depression. I told her it
would be the beginning of mine. [laughter]
[00:22:24]
We were trying to cheer up Hoover because he was feeling very, very depressed because it
seemed that he never got any credit at all for all his tireless efforts to halt the Depression. And he
said he was tired of his ceaseless critics. And I said, "Well, you know, Hoover, they can't expect
to see calves running in the field the morning after you put the bull to the cow." [laughter] "No,"
Hoover said, "but you would expect to see contented cows." [laughter]
He always wondered how I was able to see so many people and to transact so much business
when I was in office. I told him, "The trouble with you, Hoover, is you talk back to them."
[laughter]
[00:23:37]
When they elected that superman, Hoover, I knew he was going to have trouble. He was going to
have to spend money, but he wouldn't spend enough. And then, the Democrats would get in and
they would spend money like water. But the Democrats don't know anything about money. And
they'll want me to come back and save money for them. But I won't do it. No, I won't.
I feel I no longer fit with these times. When I was in office, tax reduction, tariff stability, peace
and the economy were the things for which I gave attention, and we succeeded along those lines.
I read of the newfangled things that are now so popular and I realize that my time has passed.
These new ideas call for new men to develop them. The task is not for men who understand the
only kind of government that I know anything about. Of course, no one can tell these days what a
few years may bring forth. But of course, I know my time is done.
73 Tremont Street, Boston, MA 02108 | Tel: 617.305.6277 | archives@suffolk.edu
24
�MS113.0001-0002 Transcript
[00:25:17]
And I think on this note, I will acknowledge that my time is done this evening. Thank you all.
[applause]
END OF RECORDING
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25
�
Dublin Core
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
Language
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English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
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1:20:37
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ms113.0001-0002
Title
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Calvin Coolidge Press Conference (Parts 1 and 2) (audio recording and transcript)
Date
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circa 1933
Description
An account of the resource
Recording of a press conference given by former President Calvin Coolidge; the exact date and place are unknown. Coolidge discusses at length his family, growing up in Vermont, and his early political career in Massachusetts including the Boston Police Strike of 1919 – his handling of which catapulted him into national politics. He later discusses his presidency, aspects of Herbert Hoover’s presidency and life after the White House.
Creator
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Ford Hall Forum
Coolidge, Calvin, 1872-1933
Source
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0001-0002
Language
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English
Type
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Sound recording
Sound recordings
Format
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MP3
Subject
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Forums (Discussion and debate)
Ford Hall Forum
Coolidge, Calvin, 1872-1933
Presidents
Relation
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Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
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Copyright is retained by the creators of items in this collection, or their descendants, as stipulated by United States copyright law. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Ford Hall Forum
Politics and government
US Presidents
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
Language
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English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
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ms-0165
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Daniel Schorr First Amendment Award Remarks, 1986
Date
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11 May 1986
Creator
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Schorr, Daniel, 1916-2010
Ford Hall Forum
Description
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Transcript of remarks made by Daniel Schorr, American journalist, upon receiving the Ford Hall Forum First Amendment Award on May 11, 1986.
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 263
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tgn: 7013445
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English
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Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Schorr, Daniel, 1916-2010
Freedom of speech
Awards
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Ford Hall Forum
Free speech
-
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
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English
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An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
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<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
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0:58:32
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MS113.0041
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Daniel Schorr receives the Ford Hall Forum's First Amendment Award [audio recording]
Date
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11 May 1986
Creator
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Ford Hall Forum
Schorr, Daniel, 1916-2010
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0041
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English
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Sound recording
Sound recordings
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MP3
Subject
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Forums (Discussion and debate)
Ford Hall Forum
United States. -- Constitution. -- 1st Amendment
Schorr, Daniel, 1916-2010
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First Amendment
Ford Hall Forum
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PDF Text
Text
New American Gazette: Transcript of The Rights and
Responsibilities of a Free Press Forum
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: “David Gergen, Arthur Miller, and Martin F. Nolan discuss, The Rights and
Responsibilities of a Free Press at the Ford Hall Forum”
Recording Date: November 16 Day, 1986
Speakers: Gergen, David; Miller, Arthur; Nolan, Martin F.
Item Information: “David Gergen, Arthur Miller, and Martin F. Nolan discuss, The Rights and
Responsibilities of a Free Press at the Ford Hall Forum.” Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013
(MS113.3.1, item 0050) Moakley Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: transcript available at http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Copyright Information: Copyright © 1986 Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Summary:
Transcription of a Ford Hall Forum that features Martin F. Nolan, David Gergen, and moderator
Arthur Miller discussing, “The Rights and Responsibilities of a Free Press.” The panelists
examine the state of journalism in the face of challenges such as media conglomeration, the
general public’s declining interest, and tensions with the government. Using the recently
uncovered Iran/Contra scandal as a backdrop, they discuss the importance of a free press as a
check on US government policies and actions.
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Transcript Begins
INTRODUCTION: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Ford Hall Forum.
This is the last presentation of our fall series tonight, and we're glad to see you all here. This is
part of our Constitutional Series and we're looking at one of the premier parts of the
Constitution; that's the First Amendment and the rights and responsibilities of a free press.
Tonight's moderator is someone I think who is familiar to all of you – as a legal commentator on
TV, both locally and nationally on Good Morning America, and as the host of the popular
Miller's Court. Arthur Miller is not just a television commentator, however. He's been a professor
at Harvard Law School since 1971, before which he practiced law in New York and taught at the
University of Michigan. He's known professionally for this work on core procedure, where he's
author or co-author of more than 25 books, and for this work in copyright law. He's also known
for extensive work in the field of the right of privacy, where he has written, testified, debated and
helped formulate legislation.
And now, without any further introductions, ladies and gentlemen, the Forum is pleased to
present as our moderator this evening, Arthur Miller. [applause]
[00:01:21]
ARTHUR MILLER: Thank you, Donald. We are indeed a blessed people because we have
more rights than any other nation on the face of the earth. We tend to forget that as we get
wrapped up in the events of the day – the Middle East, South Africa, Iran, hostages, and things
like that. But we should never forget that we Americans have more rights than the people of any
nation that has ever inhabited this planet.
[00:01:55]
But of all those rights, if somebody woke you up in the middle of the night and shook you by
your shoulders and said, "What is the most unique, distinctive American right," there can be only
one answer – it's free speech, free press.
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We practice free press in this country like no one else does. We inherited it from the British, but
the British, unlike us, hem it in by official secrets laws, libel laws, contempt laws. We wrote it
down; they didn't. We wrote it down in the First Amendment, as any good journalist will tell
you. It's in the First Amendment. First. It's holy scripture.
[00:02:50]
And the truth of the matter is that not only is it the most distinctive American right, it has served
us magnificently well for 200 years. In our lifetime, we've seen it operate twice at a very unique
level. No matter what you may think about Watergate, no matter what you may think about
Vietnam, the truth is that our First Amendment, our press, in both of those crises, enabled the
American people, through the ventilation of those issues, to form their own judgments about a
president and about Southeast Asia. It was a performance that could go on in no country other
than ours. The press, the First Amendment.
[00:03:46]
But nothing in life is absolute, other, I suppose, than death. As holy scripture as the First
Amendment may be, the press not only has rights, it has responsibilities. And that's our topic
tonight – the press, its rights and its responsibilities. We have two people who know as much
about this subject as any two people one could think of.
[00:04:16]
Our first speaker is Martin F. Nolan, a man with deep Boston roots; born in this city in 1940,
educated here in the city again, at Boston College. He's been with the Boston Globe since '61.
He's been the editor of the editorial page since 1981. He's a frequent participant in television,
appearing most frequently on Face the Nation, Meet the Press, This Week with David Brinkley.
He was a member of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize, journalism's highest award, for meritorious
public service. But to me, Martin F. Nolan is most appreciated because he was a card-carrying
member of President Nixon's Enemies List. Our first speaker, Martin F. Nolan. [applause]
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MARTIN NOLAN: Thank you, Professor Miller. I didn't bring my card with me. Rights and
responsibilities. Well, of course, we like one and we like it to be conferred, and the other one we
have to work towards. That's what my business should be doing more of.
[00:05:53]
Rights, yes. I think the rights of the press are safe, for now; temporarily, at least. And our
responsibilities, we try to meet them every day, but I think we fail to do so in some important
areas. And we do so because we assume that our readers lack our own ability to concentrate and
that our readers have a short attention span, and that our readers sometimes have that cynicism
which is the occupational hazard of our trade, that cynicism born of a daily routine.
[00:06:31]
I wish our rights were portable or, indeed, potable, as some cherished things that once belonged
to W.C. Fields. In the mid-1930s, Fields had done very well for himself and bought a new house
in Bel Air. And he invited Groucho Marx over one day to show it to him. And he said, "It's a
great house, great house, Groucho. You've got to see it, wait till you see the attic." "The attic?
Why do you want me to see the attic?" He said, "Come on up, come on up."
So Groucho Marx goes up to the attic and Fields shows him, as far as the eye can see, cases and
cases of whiskey, gin, vodka, other spirits. He says, "Isn't this great, Groucho?" And Marx says,
"But Bill, why do you have all this here? Prohibition is dead. Why do you have all these things?"
Fields says, "Yeah, Prohibition is dead, huh? Well, it might come back."
[00:07:32]
Well, I sometimes think that the attempted prohibition of First Amendment, the "beat the press"
syndrome that we endured several decades ago, might come back. The tension between authority
and the press is as old as this republic, certainly. My favorite writer on this subject was our third
president, Thomas Jefferson. He's my favorite because he had a lot to complain about. Probably
the most gossiped-about public figure in our history. If the current day politicians think they have
a bad time of it in the press, they should sometimes examine how Jefferson was treated.
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As he once said, "Every shaft of calumny which malice and falsehood could form has come from
the press toward me." And yet, he just said a few years later, after concluding his term in office,
he said of this tendency of the press to gossip and to trivialize, he said, "It is, however, an evil for
which there is no remedy. Our liberty depends on the press, and that cannot be limited without
being lost."
[00:08:50]
Every technological innovation has brought the press and its rights into conflict with authority.
The biggest news story in the early days of the republic was the death of General Washington in
1799. The news took 11 days to get to Boston; 13 days to get to Concord, New Hampshire; 19
days to get to the Ohio Territory; 24 days to get to Kentucky. Every technological innovation is a
boon for readers, viewers, but sometimes it threatens politicians and the ones who complain
about it frequently are the weaker politicians.
Take James Buchanan, please. In the 1850s, he wrote to James Gordon Bennett, who was one of
the entrepreneurs of the penny press, he said, "I do not know whether the great commercial and
social advantages of the telegraph are not counterbalanced by its political evils. No one can judge
of this as well as myself. The public mind throughout the interior is kept in a constant state of
excitement by what are called telegrams. They are short and spicy and can easily be inserted in
the country newspapers." I thought of that when I heard Spiro T. Agnew attack the press in 1969.
It's nothing new.
[00:10:18]
Our current President [Ronald Reagan] is the most telegenic, most photogenic, most skilled
communicator, ever, in the White House. And yet, I think now he is having his troubles, not just
as a lame duck, but in wrestling with the truth itself. Let me just read you something he said
recently. Out of old habit, I used to cover the White House when I lived in Washington, the
weekly compilation of presidential documents, available from your Government Printing Office
for a reasonable price. I get it every week and out of habit read it, just to see what the President
said. You can check with it about a week later, two weeks later.
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[00:11:03]
October 28, 1986, in Columbus, Georgia, at a rally for Senator Mack Mattingly, the President
said, "You know, America used to wear a kick-me sign around its neck. We threw that sign away
and now it reads 'don't tread on me.' Today, every nickel-and-dime dictator around the world
knows that if he tangles with the United States of America, he will have to pay a price." Well,
the President said that, and he said it in Columbus, Georgia, Birmingham, Alabama, Rapid City,
North Dakota, Charlotte, North Carolina – almost word for word – Evansville, Indiana, Reno,
Nevada, Seattle, Spokane, Los Angeles and Colorado Springs.
And in every one of those places he said, "Please vote Republican," and the voters declined to do
so. Perhaps the voters knew something, that he didn't really believe everything he said. Or maybe
he did believe it because when the President said that, he had already signed an executive order
that was far from forcing any nickel-and-dime dictator to pay a price; the nickel-and-dime
dictator was about to be rewarded with a cache of arms.
[00:12:23]
In trying to examine what is forcing the President into this attitude of uncharacteristically
blaming the press – and I say that it's uncharacteristic, he doesn't usually – I really think now it's
becoming clear that there's a military influence upon the President. Now, let's be clear. From my
own limited and unheroic service as an enlisted man, I can assure you that the professional
military are not the problem in this country. The professional military have been called upon
from time to time to clean up the mess of civilians. The war in Vietnam had more to do with
what went on at Harvard and MIT than what went on in the Pentagon.
[00:13:04]
But having said that, I do notice that despite President Reagan's genial attitude towards the press,
I'm not so sure it's shared by Admiral Poindexter, Colonel McFarlane, and Lieutenant Colonel
Oliver North. Because their mission is antithetical to a free society, for their mission depends on
extra-legal, unconstitutional, secretive methods. Now, there's nothing wrong with secrecy and
diplomacy; we don't want to see negotiations on television. But when you have something like
an enormously illegal act being conducted, of course it needs to be secret. And secrecy– when
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we're examining the drug epidemic in America, someone ought to take a look at secrecy as a
drug. Because secrecy to cover illegal actions begins with, well, something that you can
prescribe as necessary; then it leads to recreational use; and pretty soon the patient is hooked on
it. And excessive secrecy, I think, is as harmful to the democratic politic as any crack, smack or
heroin is.
[00:14:21]
Again, the sheer size of the military budget is a factor in President Reagan's credibility problems
right now. He said it was only a planeload. Has anyone ever seen a C-5A? It's as long as a city
block; it can hold 100 tons. Again, this is not all President Reagan's fault. The attitude towards
the military budget that creates the capacity for mischief was started by presidents long ago.
Jimmy Carter always shocked me when he promised the NATO partners to spend three percent
more than whatever the budget was. We're coming to the point it's not how you spend it or what
you spend it on, it's how much.
Again, this reminds me of W.C. Fields. Fields walked into the Black Pussycat Café in Lompoc,
California, one morning, and says to the bartender, "Say, was I in here last night? Did I spend a
$20 bill?" Bartender, "No." He says, "Boy, is that a load off my mind! I thought I'd lost it." Well,
the Pentagon, like W.C. Fields, feels as long as you spent it, that's what counts. It doesn't matter
what or how.
[00:15:47]
The rights of the press throughout history have been well taken care of. Let me illustrate it by
telling you about somebody called Elijah Parish Lovejoy. He was a graduate of Colby College in
Maine, Class of 1826. And he wanted to become a newspaperman and he moved to St. Louis and
started a paper. And he was an abolitionist, and because of the hot and heavy activity involving
the slave trade in the Border States, his views were unacceptable and his press was thrown into
the Mississippi River, and so was he.
He moved across the river to the free state of Illinois, to Alton, where he thought he could write
without fear, and he got his press in Alton. And again, his press was burnt and he was beaten up.
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He tried one more time. But on the night of November 7, 1837, a mob attacked his newspaper
office, and he and some friends tried to fight back. But the mob set fire to the building and killed
Elijah Parish Lovejoy.
[00:16:58]
Now, because of this record, his alma mater, Colby College, every year gives an award named
after Elijah Parish Lovejoy. And during the 1950s, when this award was begun, it was pretty
easy; you could give this award for courage and dedication and craftsmanship to various
Southern editors who have fought heroically against all odds. But throughout the '60s and '70s,
and now into the '80s, it's not so easy to give an award for courage in journalism because it
doesn't take much courage to practice journalism. Our job has gotten a lot easier. I know because
I'm on the selection committee. And when we choose it, we always say the best we can do is
somebody who goes against the grain.
[00:17:48]
I look at the Ford Hall Forum tonight and I am filled, of course, with fondness and nostalgia
because about 25 years ago I used to come to cover Ford Hall Forum events. It was at Jordan
Hall, down the street, then; Judge Reuben Lurie would introduce Averell Harriman or J.K.
Galbraith or Ayn Rand. I was always interested in Ayn Rand, but I was more interested in the
audience for Ayn Rand; I thought they were fascinating. Those people who worry about the selfcentered yuppies today should have seen those folks. [laughter]
[00:18:25]
Not only was the Ford Hall Forum intellectually nourishing and stimulating, but it was also cozy
and warm and safe from an outside assignment. Whoever got that magic white envelope that had
the Ford Hall Forum assignment was less likely to be covering a three-alarm fire at a Chelsea
warehouse, or being dispatched to a living room and trying to cajole some grieving parents to
surrender the only photograph of their slain or mangled teenager. These sort of barbaric practices
were what the American newspaper business was all about 25 years ago. It was much more
competitive, and what it competed in was private grief, not public policy.
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[00:19:13]
When I started angling for Ford Hall Forum assignments, there were seven newspapers in
Boston. There were nine in New York City. And what has happened since then is that the
American newspaper business has had its shakeout, as they say on Wall Street. In the process, of
course, American newspapers missed one of the great stories, the greatest mass migration in
human history, of Americans to the suburbs. Americans, and therefore readers, and therefore are
not too many afternoon papers left.
[00:19:48]
But newspapers have survived now; I don't know whether information is powerful or not, but it
sure is profitable. Newspapers are now more, better bottom-line-oriented than television
networks. NBC's worried about moving to New Jersey. ABC's new owners have taken away
their limousines. And CBS is a bit of a mess. When a paper comes to the position of being sort of
the only game in town, which the other media, electronic media, depend on, we have certain
obligations. And I'm not so sure we fulfill them.
[00:20:26]
My responsibility every day is the editorial page and the op-ed page of the Boston Globe. Since
the news side has to worry more about accuracy and fairness, that doesn't mean that we don't
worry about them, but I think that the problem with editorials sometimes is lack of clarity. I keep
on drumming into the writers, I say, "Two rules. Ideology is negotiable, but these rules are not –
one, be clear; two, make a point." Our motto is, better to offend a million readers than to confuse
one. I don't want people scratching their heads saying, "What are you guys saying?"
[00:21:11]
I remember someone who was once interviewed for a job on the New York Times, and one of the
top editors said, "Now, do you read the New York Times?" "Oh, yes." "What's your favorite
section?" And she said, "Well, I like the corrections." [laughter] She didn't get the job. The
corrections are part of our daily life and we're not proud of them, but we do print them as an
obligation. I think if we extended that, we'd have probably fewer problems with litigation,
although I am quite all too familiar with the use of the libel suit as a political platform. I wish our
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judiciary were more aware of that and would throw some of those ridiculous libel suits out. But
it's our responsibility to be fair and accurate.
[00:21:57]
One great defect and one place where I think my business is not keeping up its responsibilities is
in the coverage of American politics. I like covering American politics. I find it fascinating. I
think that newspapers, by and large, disserve the readers by assuming that the readers are as
cynical as we are about the contest and are in a bloody hurry to get it over with. That is the
addiction to polling which we have. Every year at the Boston Globe we take a survey: Should we
poll again next year? And every year I vote against it, and every year I lose.
[00:22:38]
I've covered a lot of politicians. I know what kind of questions they love – How's your farm
support. "No problem." What's your labor support in Contra Costa County? "Oh, I've got that."
How's your fundraising? "Oh, they're ready for that." Politicians do not like the questions of,
Why are you running? What difference does it make if you are elected? What would be the first
thing you'd do if you were in office? What would be the first bill you'd veto?
[00:23:10]
Now, we have to be scrupulous in our business in giving all of these politicians their own due.
They could filibuster those questions, but I think that would show the readers a lot, too. But
we've become addicted to the horse race because the politicians are addicted to the horse race.
And they are because of the polls. And therefore, to be fair to the poor guys lagging behind in the
polls, we have to give them a slide rule measure of how much news, of political news. Well, I
think we ought to take the slide rule out and use it differently next time. I think we ought to say,
How many horse race inches have we given the poor readers? And how much substance? If we
try it differently, we might do better.
[00:23:53]
Well, my business, in the hydraulics of human nature, it is seasonal. Politicians are up, the press
is down. We're never going to be beloved figures. Many people are influenced to get into this
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business by a great moment in the newspapers because it was, of course, a terrific movie, as was
almost a documentary is. Two newspapermen go after a corrupt regime, bring down the
government, and therefore this movie and two famous movie stars, influenced a lot of people. Of
course, I'm referring to Pat O'Brien and Adolphe Menjo in The Front Page in 1931. [laughter]
This is cyclical.
[00:24:40]
Like Hildy Johnson and Water Burns, whom they portrayed, another great newspaperman from
Chicago was Finley Peter Dunne, who had a character named Mr. Dooley, who wrote in dialect
because in the turn of the century, it was the only he could get away with saying outrageous
things with a Roscommon brogue. So Mr. Dooley said [in Irish brogue:], "Ah, the newspaper
does everything for us. It runs the police force and the banks. It commands the militia, controls
the legislature; baptizes the young, marries the foolish; comforts the afflicted, afflicts the
comfortable; buries the dead and roasts them afterwards."
[00:25:20]
Comforts the afflicted and afflicts the comfortable. Well, that's the phrase I like. If the American
press would do more comforting of the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable, we'd meet our
rights and earn our responsibilities.
Thank you. [applause]
ARTHUR MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Nolan. Our second speaker is David R. Gergen, who
joined US News and World Report in January of '85 as a contributing columnist. In September of
that year, he became managing editor with responsibility for directing coverage of domestic and
foreign news. And in March of this year, he was named editor.
[00:26:09]
Mr. Gergen is a veteran of three White Houses, serving most recently as communications
director for President Reagan, from '81 through the end of '83. He left in January of '84 to
become a fellow at the John F. Kennedy School at Harvard and at the American Enterprise
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Institute in Washington, where he had been a resident fellow in the '70s. His breeding also
includes a degree from Yale University, and believe it or not in 1967, a degree from the Harvard
Law School, having wisely escaped that institution before I arrived.
David R. Gergen. [applause]
DAVID GERGEN: Thank you very much, Professor Miller. There are some who say that when
I got into journalism I found honest work at last. Nonetheless, where I come from, back in North
Carolina – the Harvard Law School, some may wonder why I wandered away from it – back
home in North Carolina, they say it takes three years to go to the Harvard Law School and ten
years to get over it.
[00:27:23]
Nonetheless, I am delighted to be here. This is a very distinguished forum. I'm delighted to join
Marty Nolan on this forum. I've been reading his editorials in the Boston Globe for a long time.
At least I know where one edge of the argument is, and it is often the cutting edge, I must say.
But nonetheless it's good to see him again. Marty, as often his fashion, has, I think, presented a
wonderfully panoramic view of issues that concern the press. And rather than cover some of that
same ground – I certainly couldn't do it as well as he has already – I'd like to cut off a slice of
that and look a little more closely at an issue or issues that are very much current this evening.
And they concern United States foreign policy, with particular reference, I hope, to the press.
[00:28:15]
What's been interesting about foreign policy, particularly in the Reagan years, is the degree to
which the focus has shifted away from NATO issues and frequently away from arms control
issues to what's called low intensity conflict. That's the latest code phrase one hears in
Washington; there are all sorts of conferences that are held on that issue. And time and time
again one hears speakers from within the administration, and in fact elsewhere, who say that the
most important series of issues that we as Americans are going to face in coming years are not
keeping the peace with the Soviets in terms of a strategic peace, a nuclear peace. That we think
we have made a lot of progress on; after all we've done that for 40 years. The most important
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issues we face are other kinds of conflicts, what they call low intensity conflicts, which mainly
are the struggle against terrorism and also the struggle in third world countries against
adventurism, Marxist advances as the Reaganites like to call them. But in any event, where the
US is so frequently challenged or its friends are challenged. And it's here that much of the
energy, certainly a lot of the ideological passion in Washington, is now centered.
[00:29:36]
Over the last six years, we have seen a concerted effort by the Reagan administration to
counter—or perceived to have been made by the Soviets during the '60s and '70s, particularly
during the '70s. There were some nine countries around the world where the Marxist
governments took power in the 1970s. They're scattered around and they run from Nicaragua to
Afghanistan and elsewhere. But in each of those countries, what's remarkable today is that under
the, quote, Reagan Doctrine, we, the United States, are assertively challenging the power of the
groups that came into those governments. And we're actively supporting, in one country after
another, with arms or with money, often covertly, the authority of those countries. We're trying
to prevent them from consolidating their power. And in many other countries, we, the United
States, are actively trying to win over democratic forces.
[00:30:43]
I read in the Philadelphia Inquirer today, as a follow-up to Iran, that since 1981, President
Reagan has approved some 50 covert actions in his administration. Activities that were
undertaken the CIA or by others – in some cases by the National Security Council staff – to
secretly influence the course of events in other countries. This is very much at the center of much
of American foreign policy today. And it does often present, this kind of activity often presents
acute difficulties for the executive branch. Not only within the executive branch, but also with
our allies, with the Congress, with the press, and ultimately with the public. We've seen this just
most recently in the Iranian question, what is rapidly becoming a fiasco over Iran. We certainly
saw it in the disinformation issue that arose with regard to Libya. And we've also seen it
certainly in the secret war in Nicaragua in support of the Contras.
[00:31:47]
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Now, I want to talk for a moment about the kind of problems and the challenges that are seen
within the White House and by those within the executive branch as they look out and try to
conduct these kind of policies. I think it's important to understand the mindset that's at work here
to understand why we are seeing the events in Iran unravel as they are.
[00:32:10]
To most folks around the President, the world appears to be highly volatile. It is one in which the
Soviets, despite their economic problems, are continuing their adventurism. There is a very
widespread belief that Mr. Gorbachev is not significantly different from his predecessors, that he
is in fact as adventuristic as they have been, and he is as interested in destabilizing regions of the
world as they have been. The amount of shipments, for instance, going to Nicaragua are higher
this year than they have ever been before. And the Soviets are lending a lot of support to that.
And there are other places in the world, as you look around, and Afghanistan happens to be one
of them in which the Soviets seem to be increasing their pressures and not decreasing them.
[00:32:54]
There is a feeling also among those who surround the President that if the United States only has
sufficient political will, it can at least hold this adventurism in check and perhaps even can roll it
back – by the perspective and the perspective of those around the President.
In those nine nations that the Marxists took over in the 1970s, in every one of those countries the
group that has come in to power has failed to consolidate its power because of the pressure that is
coming from outside with a lot of US sponsorship. There's no better example of that than
Nicaragua. The Sandinistas are having a difficult time governing. That does not mean the
Contras are a popular force; they're not. But the Sandinistas are also having difficulty governing.
And in the minds of the Reaganites, that's a positive step forward; at least the Sandinistas are not
as effective as they were in the minds of the Reaganites at destabilizing places like El Salvador.
[00:33:54]
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More than that, there is a view that the use of force against terrorism has succeeded. No better
example of that than Libya where Gaddafi was certainly thrown off stride, if he hasn't become
totally quiescent, since we hit him.
[00:34:12]
No new nations have fallen under Marxist rule since the Reagan Doctrine went into effect; that's
one of the proudest claims that the President has. Democratization has taken hold in some
countries in South America; we have more democracies in South America than we've had in a
long, long time. And there are even faint signs of progress in some parts of Africa outside
southern Africa. Southern Africa is a different matter. So within the mindset of the Reaganites, if
the United States simply has the political will and it is willing to persevere, we can, in fact, may
have a new containment policy that has chances of success.
[00:34:52]
But to pursue these policies, it's the view of those who are in power today that the United States,
the executive branch in Washington has almost acted in isolation, that it's forced by the world in
which it finds itself to act in secrecy, to act almost alone. As the Reaganites look out around the
world and beyond our shores, we find a NATO alliance that is predominantly focusing on NATO
and European issues. There is no appetite within the alliance for dealing with some of these third
world problems. And not one of the nine nations where the Marxists have gained these footholds
are we finding support from the allies for the Reagan Doctrine. There is some quiet support in
Afghanistan from, as I say, the West Germans who are sending money into Pakistan, which may
be being used to support the resistance movement in Afghanistan, but, by and large, as the
Reaganites see it, we're not getting a lot of support from NATO and we're also not getting a lot
of support from NATO in our pre-Iran days when we went out and asked for their help against
terrorism. The French, for instance, were clearly willing to be much more accommodating
toward terrorist states than we were. And by French lights, they've made some progress with
that.
[00:36:15]
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But the main point is, as the US looks around, it doesn't find a lot of help out there, and feels it,
again, has to go toward unilateralism as opposed to what the Europeans call multilateralism.
[00:36:27]
Domestically, as the Reagan administration looks out, it finds it has a series of additional
problems. We have an ambivalent public. The consensus we had in this country on foreign
policy was basically shattered by Vietnam. It has not come back again. And there is very little
appetite in the American public for sustained covert, or even overt military actions by the United
States. There is very little support in this country for the United States doing anything which may
draw our forces into Nicaragua. Most people in the public just simply don't want to commit US
military forces, and they'd rather not, in fact, hear a lot of about it, if truth be known. There's not
a huge appetite out there to even know all the facts. There's almost a sense one gets around the
country that if Reagan needs to do a few things quietly, let him go ahead with it, just don't tell
me about it, and don't get our boys involved. I think that's an unfortunate feeling, but you find it.
[00:37:22]
But there is a widespread feeling in the country that if we're going to get into a military conflict,
let's make it quick, let's make it decisive. Let's win and get out. But let's not have anything which
requires a big, sustained effort; anything close to Vietnam. Granada was a wonderful success – a
surgical war, nobody saw it on television, we didn't see any bloodshed; we just knew we got
those kids home from that medical school. It looked like a pretty good victory and Reagan was
very, very popular. That kind of victory you can get away with, but the long, sustained effort
doesn't seem to wash with the public. And the Reagan administration knows that.
[00:37:53]
Beyond that, there's a question of Congress; there's a very divided Congress. It has been true for
a number of years that no single President can count on support from Congress the way an
Eisenhower could or the way even Kennedy could in some foreign policy situations, because the
nature of Congress has changed. We no longer have the seniority system in Congress. We have
535 fiefdoms up there. As Ted Sorensen has written, when you look at the Congress, it's often as
if there are 535 ants on a log in a swirling stream with each ant thinking he's in charge.
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[00:38:31]
And beyond that, with this division, the Congress has also demanded much more
micromanagement of foreign policy. They demand to be involved. They demand to be able to
help make some of the decisions. And they're demanding oversight of covert activities. But with
this demand for authority has gone – from the point of the Reaganites, and I must say I think
there's a persuasive case to be made for this – with this demand for authority is an unwillingness
to provide much responsibility. It is notoriously true that when the members of Congress are
brought in to the picture on covert activities that they leak like a sieve; they leak much worse
than the executive branch. It's very, very hard for any President – Reagan or anybody else – to go
up to Capitol Hill and say, "I'd like to talk to you about something which is very important to our
national security. Here's what we're planning to do. I'd like to have you as part of this, be on
board with this." It's very hard to keep a secret in that group. And the Reagan people, as a result,
have been driven back on themselves when they carry out covert activities.
[00:39:33]
And finally, there is this concern – I think it's carried to excess – within the Reagan
administration about the press. It is true that the American press is absolutely fascinated by
clandestine activities, especially on the international front; those are juicy stories. Iran, from the
point of view of anybody who's a journalist, is a wonderfully interesting story. It involves all
sorts of interests – there are arms shifting back and forth, there are not only diplomats but there
may be cakes and there may be keys and Bibles, and who knows what's going on. But if you're
half a journalist, you're going to dive right in to that story because it offers so many interesting
possibilities. And that's why it's going to be a rolling story for some time to come.
[00:40:21]
But in an age of hot journalistic competition – and it's extremely competitive, even though we
have fewer newspapers, sadly, in cities like Boston – it is extremely competitive in the
journalistic world today. It is almost a no-holds-barred effort to get at facts, as a result of which
there's a great deal of speculation, there's a lot of jumping to conclusions. I think as well there's a
glamorization of terrorism. We have gone way overboard sometimes in these terrorist cases,
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particularly on the networks, and giving up, essentially, time and a lot of attention to the
terrorists to present their demands. And they have won a lot of what they've sought simply for
their cases by being able to command American television time.
[00:41:04]
The bottom line for the Reagan administration is, looking at all of that, there's a lot of paranoia
about the press. There's a feeling that, particularly in the military, but it's also– and there are a lot
of military people in the Reagan administration at the top, as Marty has pointed out. But there's a
widespread feeling that you can't trust the press and that you'd better keep things away from
them. All of this, all of these forces – lack of support with the allies, divided public, divided
Congress, a press that is highly aggressive, in a world which is volatile, with an administration
that wants to conduct essentially an assertive foreign policy and wants to do it in a way which
really ties up the Soviets – has driven them more and more, I think, into a highly secretive mode
and one in which covert activity has become a preferred way of doing business frequently.
[00:41:58]
And I think it has become increasingly dangerous, the conduct, the successful conduct of
American foreign policy. We've seen this nowhere more so than what we've been learning over
the last few weeks about Iran. Now, it does seem to me on Iran that the Reagan administration
began essentially in 1981 or so believing that it would like to strengthen its contacts and its ties
with the less radical elements – one can hardly call them moderate – in Iran in the belief that one
day the Ayatollah would not be around, that we, the United States, like Israel and others, would
like to stop the Soviets from coming into authority in Iran. And we had every reason to want to
moderate their policies. That became even more so as they engaged in the war with Iraq because
we have a very strong interest in not seeing that war spill over into the Persian Gulf.
I don't think they got very far in the early days, but in 1985, when the Israelis came and said,
"You've got an opportunity, if you deal with Iran, to possibly get your hostages back," I think
something snapped in the administration. And that's when they said, "Let's go after it." I think
you have to understand it was Reagan. I think he has – I don't want to call it a hang-up, but I
think that Reagan has an extreme personal interest in the hostages, individual hostages. I think
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that it's not well understood. My sense of Reagan, in working around him, is, he is sometimes not
as persuaded. If you come to him and make an argument about the fact that we've got an
underclass in this country and there's a large group of people who have this problem or that
problem, he tends to see the solutions to those problems in the context of a free market, a
capitalistic society opening up opportunities, rather than a welfare system. That's his mindset,
that's his response.
[00:43:56]
But if you come and talk to him about an individual who is suffering, whether it be someone in
the underclass, someone in Harlem, or if you talk about an American like Nick Daniloff in
Moscow and of prison, or if you talk about a hostage, he relates very strongly and on a very
personal basis to that. And he feels very strongly about doing something about it and personally
intervening. And I think that had an awful lot to do with our policies and what we've been in
engaged in in Iran recently.
[00:44:28]
In the last few days, some of his advisors have talked to us in the press and said, "Look, over the
last couple of years, 60% of the time, at least, when we go in to present a national security or
foreign policy briefing to him in the morning, one of the first questions he's got is, 'Have you
heard anything new about the hostages?'" It has been a preoccupation of his for some time. And I
think that once they heard they could do something maybe about the hostages, and also possibly
strengthen ties with Iran, they decided to go in with this policy.
But the problem they ran into was, that given all the other circumstances and all the other forces
out there, they decided to do it within a very tight circle of people, and to do it in extreme
secrecy. And that's where they got themselves into a lot of trouble. Because the tight circle was
not only with regard to Congress, but even within the administration. They decided to withhold it
from a tremendous number of people. There was a distrust of the State Department. That's where
a lot of the experts are, on Iranian issues, and there was a distrust of those people because they
might not be sympathetic. So they withheld the information, they held them outside the
consultations, they didn't get a lot of advice from those people you would normally turn to.
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[00:45:38]
As far as anyone can tell, there were only three or four people in the whole government who
knew about and approved what the President was doing. Mainly the President himself, his
National Security Advisor, Admiral Poindexter, Donald Regan, and perhaps Bill Casey, the
director of the CIA. Clearly, the Secretary of State had a lot of reservations about; the Secretary
of Defense had a lot of reservations about it, and it's my intuition, not yet supported by a lot of
facts, that Bud McFarlane had carried out some of this diplomacy, had a lot of reservations about
sending arms into Iran.
[00:46:12]
But the net result is that because they had such a tight circle of people inside, they clearly didn't
have the benefits of a lot of wisdom and expertise that does exist within the government – not a
lot, but there's a fair amount – that exists about Iran. After all, there are a lot of folks in this
country who dealt with Iran very, very closely in the late Carter years, and have an awful lot of
experience knowing and being able to identify and say, "Hey, you can get suckered by these
people very easily." That's what the Carter people kept on looking for, the moderates, and kept
on saying, "We think we've finally identified some moderates who can do some good for us."
And they continually got double-crossed by them.
[00:46:50]
Now, that history is very, very applicable to this situation. And yet, there wasn't an effort to
reach out because it was held so tightly. And they also did it, of course, and acted in violation of
public US policy. We do have, after all, a policy about not dealing with terrorist nations and, just
recently, not long ago, we called Iran a terrorist nation, put them on the terrorist list. The
President has called the Iranians Murder Incorporated, and we had a policy about not dealing
with them. But we also had a policy about not sending arms to Iran. And we have completely, I
think, undercut the position we had with our allies as we went to them on terrorism. We had the
moral high ground for a long time, about saying, "You ought to come help us and work with us
on terrorism," and that high ground is no longer available to us. Whatever they say, it's much
more difficult for us now to go out to the allies and say, "Hey, give us some help."
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[00:47:48]
I also think they have violated the spirit– I think the case is very arguable, and certainly we're
going to hear from the Congress a lot more about this, that they may have violated the spirit, if
not the letter, of the law with regard to covert activities. The law that Congress passed in the
wake of Watergate, in the wake of a lot of other things that were going on in the '70s, in the latter
part of the Carter administration, a law was passed that required the executive branch, whenever
it carries out a covert activity, either to tell the Congress, a small number of people in the
Congress, ahead of time that it was going to carry on that activity. Or if it couldn't call them up
in the middle of the night because they had to do something quickly, then to tell them in a timely
fashion that it had done these covert things.
The problem is, they didn't tell them about Iran ahead of time, and now they're arguing, in the
Reagan administration, "Well, we told them in a timely fashion." The Congress said, "Timely
fashion? You started doing this 11 months ago and you finally decided to tell us. And the only
reason you told us was, it went public." So they've got a very serious problem on Capitol Hill.
[00:48:50]
The public explanations have been very cute. I think they've been technically accurate, but they
have left– I'm going to move along here; I guess we're going to run out of time here soon. But the
public explanations have left an awful lot to be desired because they've left so many questions
unanswered. There's a huge question about what the Israelis have been up to, and we in the press
can't get much information about that. And you can't complete this picture until you know what
other arms sales or shipments that we, the United States, have condoned.
[00:49:21]
And finally, in Iran, and with this Iranian mission, they have greatly deepened their credibility
gulf with the press. It wasn't the American press that leaked this story. It wasn't the American
press that found this story. It was first leaked in Iran itself by the opposition to the moderates, the
more radical factions, and then the story spilled over into Lebanon; a Syrian-backed magazine
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put it out in Lebanon. And finally it broke in the United States press as it drifted over from
Lebanon. It wasn't the American press that was responsible for this.
[00:49:56]
And yet, the administration came out swinging against the press for talking about it, for
speculating about it. Even in the speech the President gave the other night, he attacked the press
for what it had been saying about it. And yet, it was quite clear that the American press had
damn little to do with it. It was simply trying to report on what was happening internationally in
a story which a lot of people feel both the Congress and the public deserve to know more about.
[00:50:25]
But I think it's important to understand that the press has found this whole episode to be highly
offensive. There has been this barrage against the press, and now you find a barrage of criticism
of the administration by the press. The papers today are just full of criticism of the Reagan
administration.
[00:50:47]
Interestingly enough, I think one element that's driving some of these stories is that there is a
personal distaste by some leading White House reporters for the National Security Advisor; they
simply don't like the man, Admiral Poindexter, and they're going to go after him. And they're not
going to let up very quickly.
[00:51:05]
And I think the question is, and I'll try to be brief on this, the question is now just how do we get
out of Iran, how do we deal with Iran, but how do we, in fact, deal with this larger issue of covert
action, of what I think is going to be a continuing pattern by the United States government after
Reagan of trying to deal with terrorism overseas and trying to deal with a lot of these third world
countries. We are, after all, going to have this situation where low intensity conflicts are with us
for some years to come. And we now, I think, have to step back from Iran and say, How in fact
can we conduct policy in a sensible way? Not only in the executive branch, but within the press?
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I think it's, first of all, very, very important that this administration, and succeeding
administrations, recognize the idea that you cannot successfully conduct foreign policy with this
country in a closet. It cannot be done so covertly, so secretly that experts aren't brought in to the
process of discussing it, and that Congress doesn't have some role in, in fact, blessing it.
[00:52:17]
I think there has to be a degree of accountability. And we have to accept the idea of
accountability in a democratic society. If the accountability is not there, in fact, we have lost
something that's very, I think, vital to what a democracy is all about. And it raises questions
about whether the covert activity itself is worthwhile.
There has to be accountability within their own ranks, within the ranks of an administration. The
National Security Council staff is not a proper arm for covert actions by the government. And
there's going to be a lot of pressure in this coming year to cut the National Security Council staff
out of this. That's not why the NSC was set up; it was set up to coordinate policy, not to carry out
the kind of things that we've been seeing recently.
[00:53:04]
I think that we have to get away from the notion in the executive branch that if an issue is not
terribly important, we have hundreds of people who submit memos on it, and a lot of people get
involved in deciding the issue, but if it's really sensitive, we only have three or four people to
decide it. That is an inverse way, it seems to me, to go about policymaking.
[00:53:27]
There has to be an accountability to Congress. I think we have to be willing to bring in a small
number of members of Congress for consultation. Now, the administration is making the
argument, "Well, we didn't bring in the Congress when Henry Kissinger went to China." That's
true. And if McFarlane had gone to Iran on simply a diplomatic mission, there would have been
no reason under the law or anywhere else where that had to be disclosed. There's a distinction
between secret diplomacy and secret operations. Secret diplomacy, I think, is acceptable. But
when you have secret operations which have a military aspect to them, then more is required.
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There has to be an accountability to allies.
[00:54:10]
And finally, there has to be an accountability to the press. I think it's important that activities of
the government be able to withstand scrutiny. And that's part of the responsibility of the press, to
scrutinize issues as they come before us. In a parliamentary system, such as the British have, it's
often the members of the parliament who subject a government to close questioning. We don't
have that kind of system. And it's become a responsibility of the press to subject the government
to close questioning. And I think it's the responsibility of government to be willing to take those
close questions and those hard questions. And it forces the government, frankly, to think through
what it's doing and ask itself, if this becomes public, can we live with it? And that's a question of
whether they thought that through in Iran.
[00:55:03]
Now, one of the reasons – I must come back to this – one of the reasons that we want to have
that kind of accountability is if the covert actions can in fact be undertaken without public
scrutiny, without Congressional scrutiny, we are not going to be long before somebody decides
to abuse that and start using international covert actions domestically. Because once you can start
conducting, in effect, police activities overseas, it doesn't take very long before you say, Let's try
a few at home. We've seen that before. And Marty Nolan perhaps can talk about that better than
anyone else. But it is a constant danger. I don't think it's a danger with this administration, but I
think it can be a danger with successors, unless we have an understanding about how we conduct
covert activities in the world.
[00:55:51]
Secondly, I think – and this will take a lot longer to discuss – what worries me a great deal about
our public life today is, there is not a lot of honesty in our public dialogue. And it's not simply a
matter of what the executive branch is up to. We have become much more interested as a society
in appearances than in substance. We're much more interested in how something looks than what
it really means. And there's frequently an ethic that we find in business, in Congress, elsewhere
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that what's right is what you can get away with. I think it's partly a result of the television age,
but it's certainly true that we've seen it increasingly in our public life.
[00:56:42]
And as I say, it is not restricted to the executive branch. Just to look back upon what the
Congress recently did on the budget, when it passed this new budget, saying it had gotten the
deficit down to $155 billion. There is a lot of cheating that went on in that deficit. Just a brief
example: The end of the fiscal year 1987, the government, it was a payday, a military payday. It
cost $2 billion, military payday. That was what was scheduled for '87. So what did they do?
They took the military payday and they moved it into 1988. And they saved $2 billion on the
deficit. That was one of the big savings we got, by moving the military payday 24 hours. And
that's when we say, "Wow, look at all the savings. Look at how courageous we are." There's an
awful lot of that that goes on in our public life today. And there's too much sophistry.
[00:57:34]
I would think, too, that there is a responsibility on the Congress. If we're going to conduct covert
activities as a nation, as we must, I think the Congress has to show much more self-discipline
and be willing to discipline its members when they do leak. After all, the reason the
administration is not bringing them in so frequently is because they can't keep a secret. Well, the
Congress has got to have the guts to say to itself, "If we want to be part of the team, we've got to
play like a team and not simply use it for partisan purposes."
[00:58:02]
Finally, I would like to mention the press again and conclude on this note. I think that it is a
responsibility of the press to ask tough questions – to ask a lot of tough questions about Iran,
about disinformation, about Nicaragua, and a lot of these other activities. But I think it's also our
responsibility to curb some of the excesses that we so often see in the American press. I think we
too much glamorize, as I mentioned before, terrorism. I think we trivialize too many issues. I
think we're willing to accept appearances sometimes instead of reality. I think that's particularly
true in the way we cover politics. I think Marty was making very good points on that. I think we
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rush to judgment too often. We're not willing to let all the facts or get the facts; we simply like to
jump to conclusions.
[00:58:48]
I think the American press has to recognize there are legitimate national security needs. The
press is going to soon have a satellite internationally that we can look on troop movements and
ship movements and everything like that. That's going to raise a lot of security questions that I
think we ought to be willing to face up to as members of the press and talk seriously about. The
United States not only has serious national security needs, it has serious national security
interests. I've been curious; since this Iran thing has broken, there have been very few
newspapers in this country which have really done, I think, an appropriate job talking about why
Iran is important to us as a national security matter. Yes, the shipment of arms had a lot of
problems with it, but the basic motivation of trying to strengthen our ties with Iran made a lot of
sense. But there are very, very few news organizations which have talked about that. They've
simply jumped on all the problems.
[00:59:47]
And finally, I think that there is a tendency in the press, still, to recognize the failures of
government and the failings of a lot of the individuals we have in positions of authority, not only
in government, but in a lot of other institutions and, too frequently, to give them short shrift on
their successes. What I think is needed, as we approach what is a highly volatile world, is more
balance, more understanding, and a willingness, whether the next administration be Democratic
or Republican, a willingness to understand that ultimately we're all in this together.
Thank you very much. [applause]
ARTHUR MILLER: Thank you, David. It's now time for questions from the audience. I will
be repeating the questions, to make sure that people in the hall can hear, and for the radio
audience. Please keep the questions brief. And questions, not statements. Sir?
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
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ARTHUR MILLER: The question is whether the press has a responsibility to maintain the
English language at a reasonably high level. Mr. Nolan?
[01:01:42]
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, let me tell you an incident that took place during a local news story
of some major importance after the seventh game of the World Series. The Globe had in the
headline, on page one, the word Mudville. And we received about 40, 45 telephone calls; people
outraged – "What is this Mudville stuff?" Well, the reporter did not say, "As in the famous poem
'Casey at the Bat,'" and so forth. And mind you, the poem was originally about Boston. Mr.
Thayer, who wrote it, wrote it about the Boston Nine that day, and then it became sort of
conglomerated into Mudville. And we were talking about this and I said, "What is the cure for
this?" I mean, we can't educate people. I mean, suppose you put Adam and Eve in the paper; they
say "who are they?" "Who's this Eisenhower guy you're always talking about?" [laughter]
[01:02:41]
Lester Maddox used to say about the Georgia prisons, "What we need is a better class of
prisoners." I guess we need a better class of readers. But I think what we should never do though
is talk down and presume that, "We want to make sure this news story isn't any longer than an
MTV commercial," or something. So I'm sure the magazines do a much better job at doing things
at length.
[01:03:06]
DAVID GERGEN: One of my favorite items in the American press is the last item on the
editorial page of the Boston Globe, when you all do talk about language in a very interesting
way. I think a major feeling in the press is not simply talking down, which I think we do too
often, but in fact not providing context. And I think that's particularly true in television, that
everything is just sort of the quick headline, "here's what happened today," but there's no
background to it, there's no real sense. And any serious publication, I think, has to give a lot
more attention to sort of putting things in context and letting people catch up with the world. I
mean, after all, if war breaks out in a place like Pakistan, there are not many people who know
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much about that. And I think you have to give a lot of stories early on to let people sort of catch
up with what Pakistan is all about. And I think we have to give more space to that than we do.
ARTHUR MILLER: Yes, sir?
[01:04:05]
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: My question is for Mr. Nolan, and it has to do with the
coverage which the Globe gave to the last two sessions of the Ford Hall Forum. I'm sure you
have heard the suggestion that it's difficult– that the liberal bias of the Globe makes it difficult to
tell the difference between news columns and the editorial page. And the report of last Sunday's
session where Senator Kerry was criticizing the Contras and Bernard Aronson was defending the
Contras. Now, this story had 98 lines and it starts out with a three-line headline, "Kerry Says
Contras are the Creation of the US Government." Then it proceeds to give 37 lines concerning
what Senator Kerry had to say. Then 30 lines of what Mr. Aronson had to say. Then it goes with
eight lines giving a rebuttal to Kerry of Mr. Aronson's comments. But then it gives no rebuttal to
Mr. Aronson. The net result is, there are 47 lines for Mr. Kerry's comments, 30 lines for his
opponent. And then it ends with two lines quoting Senator Kerry. Now, if you go further–
ARTHUR MILLER: How about a question?
[01:05:29]
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: The question is, how do you defend this type of coverage?
And this quick point has to do with the coverage of Reverend Robertson on Thursday evening at
Faneuil Hall. I carefully scanned the Globe. I could not find a single word concerning that
particular session. I did find about an eight-inch column in your competitor.
[01:05:56]
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is twofold, as I understand it. First, there seems to be a
question as to the adequacy of covering the Ford Hall Forum. And second, there seems to be a
question as to the liberal bias of the Boston Globe.
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MARTIN NOLAN: Well, okay, let's see. The Senator Kerry/Aronson one, it sounded like an
interesting game you were describing, it sounded like a close contest as to who got more lines. I
don't really care, generally. I think that we don't really do every story with a slide rule and say,
Well, all right, he's getting so many and he's getting so many. If somebody's got something more
interesting or compelling to say, then that person will get more quotes in the paper.
[01:06:37]
On your second point, it was in my edition, a picture of the Reverend Robertson, the story. I
forget who wrote it, but I remember it was on the back page of the first section of my Globe.
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
[01:06:54]
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, it was in there. I don't know what the liberal bias was about the
Reverend Robertson. Just to make clear what I think: there's no liberal bias in the news coverage
of the Boston Globe. There's a liberal bias on the editorial page, I've heard that rumor; that's true.
But there is not in the news column.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Gergen?
DAVID GERGEN: I think I'll stay out of that. [laughter]
ARTHUR MILLER: You're taking the safe ground, eh? Yes, sir?
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: A question about the obligation of at least the print media in terms of the
illiteracy rate in the United States. Mr. Nolan?
[01:08:16]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, I know it's of deep concern. The Globe tries to help and sponsor
libraries and newspaper-in-the-classroom type of things. We can't go much beyond the
educational system. I know the Globe works carefully. We have a learning page every Sunday
and there's frequently stories about literacy. I don't know what newspapers themselves can do. I
know it's a problem. I think it's one reason we probably bore people and editorialize about the
Boston school system a lot, because that's the future. If the kids can't read, they'll never get
ahead.
[01:08:57]
DAVID GERGEN: Illiteracy is a serious social ill in this country, and I think it's important that
the press do what it can, as it does on some other social ills, as Marty said, about afflicting the
comfortable. But nonetheless, I don't think it's something we ought to change our writing for in
order to appeal to people who can't read very well. If anything, I think we ought to lift the level
of writing sophistication in a lot of our publications because I think we have several different
kinds of problems in this country, but one of them is that people who are opinion makers and
shapers in this country simply do not understand enough about the world around them. We are
not as well educated about the Japanese as they are about us. And that is also a problem. And I
think that's something that we in the press can do something more about, by lifting the level of
sophistication.
ARTHUR MILLER: As you were talking, the perverse thought crossed my mind that the only
people with a vested interest in the growth in illiteracy in this country would be television.
[laughter] Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is, how does President Reagan get his information? Mr.
Gergen?
[01:10:23]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
DAVID GERGEN: I must confess, he is not an avid reader of the Boston Globe, except
perhaps during the World Series. I think all of us know that he is not a great reader. [laughter] He
does read the Post and the Times and the Wall Street Journal. He keeps up with the magazines.
He also keeps up with television; he does see the evening news. It's interesting, since the
Congressional sessions have been carried on television, I think he probably knows more about
what's going on in the Congressional debates than any of our recent Presidents, simply because
he likes to tune in and even call some of them up in the cloakrooms.
And he gets a lot of briefing material; every day he has a stack of material that comes in from the
CIA and from others about the nature of things that are going on in the world. But he is also a
very highly verbal man. He's like some of the other Presidents we've had; a lot of information
comes verbally.
[01:11:31]
In terms of the kind of complicated issues on Iran, I think there are dangers if in fact you don't
expand that level of information base because, like most Americans, he doesn't read a lot about–
you don't see a lot in our daily press about Iran. That's when you need the experts to come in.
ARTHUR MILLER: David, you said he reads the Post. Is that the Washington Post or the New
York Post?
DAVID GERGEN: Sorry, the Washington Post. And also the Washington Times, I must say,
because that is– I think many of you are familiar with that; that has become a newspaper that has
a wide conservative circulation in Washington.
[01:12:10]
MARTIN NOLAN: I know he reads fiction, too. He read The Hunt for Red October. And I was
wondering last week whether he read too much Robert Ludlum. [laughter]
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is, why wasn't there much follow-up on the resignation of
Bernard Kalb?
[01:12:45]
DAVID GERGEN: Just briefly, I think the story, because he didn't resign immediately after–
he resigned over the disinformation memorandum and the stories about that. He didn't resign
quickly. But more importantly, he resigned just on the eve of the Iceland summit, and the focus
shifted. It was one of those kind of stories that the press moves on to the next event, and that's
why it didn't get a lot of attention.
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
[01:13:17]
DAVID GERGEN: I think there is a real problem in the press about the roving spotlight, that
we're one-issue-oriented, we tend to follow the latest fire. There's a lot of parachute journalism,
that we simply follow whatever's out there, it's breaking fast. I don't think there's much
continuity in the way we cover a lot of particularly international events. And I think it's one of
the reasons a lot of Americans have trouble making sense of the world.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Nolan, observations about disinformation, the roving spotlight or
Bernard Kalb?
[01:13:45]
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, I think there'll be one of those where-are-they-now items about
Bernie Kalb. And again, it's the nature of the job, too. It's an assistant secretary; those guys sort
of come and go. Not to denigrate his office, but he's a spokesman and they do– Gerry Ford's
press secretary resigned, but not much is made of it. If the Secretary of State resigns, which may
happen, I think you'll see a lot of follow-up on that.
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is, Mr. Reagan's judicial appointments and what impact
they may have on freedom of the press. Mr. Gergen?
[01:14:57]
DAVID GERGEN: It's a good question. I'm not sure anybody really knows the answer to that. I
would not automatically assume that because it's a Reagan conservative or a Reagan-chosen
conservative who gets on the court that that means we're going to see restrictions on the free
press. For instance, Robert Bork, who was on the court of appeals in Washington, and was often
mentioned, and may still be the next appointee, has written some notably favorable opinions, at
least in the minds of some people in the press.
And I also think that with the control shifting to the Democrats in the Senate that the kinds of
people who are going to be nominated now for the judiciary will be different. I don't think we're
going to have any more [Daniel] Manions with the Democrats running the Judiciary Committee.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Nolan?
[01:15:50]
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, I'm willing to take my chances with an intelligent judge, as Judge
Scalia certainly is, and Rehnquist, than with people who may be well meaning, according to their
previous decisions, but are not too bright. I'll take my chances if we have to– I've read some of
Judge Scalia's opinions and I disagree with them, but I think he's the type of person who will
grow in the office. Perhaps that's another way of saying what Mr. Dooley said, that whether the
Constitution follows the flag or not, the Supreme Court follows the election returns. With a
Democratic Senate, I think there is a greater spotlight. And with further judicial appointments,
they will get more scrutiny.
ARTHUR MILLER: Just to follow up on this line, do either one of you see anything
threatening happening in the courts at the present time in terms of freedom of the press?
[01:16:47]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
MARTIN NOLAN: Oh, any judge, anywhere can come up with some wowser. But I think once
it gets to a certain level, once it gets beyond the appeals court and it gets into– I've seen the
Supreme Court argue and I'm impressed, even if I disagree with– the biggest one of my lifetime
is the Pentagon papers. No idea how many Nixon appointees said, "Hey, we've got this, no
problem; we're going to beat this rap." And when it came to the critical case of prior restraint,
and whether in fact the government could have put a padlock on our presses and tell us not to
publish something, the score was eight-zip. I was in San Clemente at the time and there were a
lot of shocked people in the Nixon administration.
[01:17:37]
I have confidence in the judiciary. I think they have as great, or just as great a sense of what the
right thing for the country is as anyone.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Gergen?
[01:17:48]
DAVID GERGEN: I'm sometimes more scared by the lawyers than I am by the courts. I don't
think there's a clear and present danger.
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic] [applause]
ARTHUR MILLER: Although I didn't hear a question mark, I'll turn it around. Why is the
current President considered to be a great communicator?
[01:19:00]
DAVID GERGEN: I don't think there is any question in her mind. [laughter] Whether "great
communicator" is appropriate or not, I do think that the man has demonstrated a fairly large
capacity to persuade the American people that he is– well, what is persuasion? You can call it
manipulation if you will. You can call it almost anything. But you can use a positive or a
negative approach to that.
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
[01:19:33]
But the fact is that he is able to persuade a large number of Americans that he is acting in their
best interests and he's an extraordinarily popular man. We haven't had a man this popular, even
though people don't like a lot of his policies, since Dwight Eisenhower. And he's doing better
than Ike in a lot of ways now, until the Iranian speech. In almost every instance one could see,
when he gave a speech on television, opinion move in his direction. People came around to
believe that what he was saying made sense. And that has not been true of our recent Presidents.
It's been one of the great difficulties our recent Presidents have had, galvanizing opinion behind
them.
[01:20:11]
I happen to think, whether you agree or disagree with the policies, that it's very important that
our chief executives be able to persuade people of what they're about in order to govern. I think a
real problem we've had in the Oval Office is a crippled presidency until recently. I think there's a
danger we're going to get back into that. And I think communication skills happen to be one of
the strengths that Reagan has. You may disagree with his policies, but the fact is, he's able to get
on with a lot of them, and in a number of things he's made some progress.
[01:20:42]
MARTIN NOLAN: I'm happy to defend President Reagan. I do think he is really a great
communicator in the sense of Theodore Roosevelt's description of the presidency as a bully
pulpit, as a place to carry forth your ideas with strength, with conviction. He believes in lower
taxes. He believes in a bigger defense budget. He believes these things sincerely. He's able to
communicate them. I think, more importantly, his great skills at communication have
strengthened the office. Not so long ago, liberal political scientists were saying the deadlock of
democracy and we can never get anything done in Washington, and it's terrible, and nobody
believes the presidency. And he has overcome this enormous credibility gap which began 21
years ago. And only, alas, very recently did he fail in his communication because he failed to
trust people. He failed to trust all of us. He failed to trust George Shultz, Caspar Weinberger and
the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is about journalistic decision-making. When the facts are
sparse, what effect does competition have? Mr. Gergen?
[01:22:14]
DAVID GERGEN: It's a good question. It's one of the questions you face regularly because if
you're on to something, you don't want to lose it. On the other hand, you sure as hell don't want
to wind up with egg on your face because you do have a contract, you feel, with your readers and
you want to maintain your credibility with them. Typically in that situation, you don't print until
you know more about it, particularly if it's a highly sensitive story, if somebody's reputation is at
stake, if maybe national security may be involved. Then typically you send the reporter back, or
send other reporters into the field, try to see if you can verify. If you can't, you don't print it.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Nolan?
[01:22:56]
MARTIN NOLAN: If it was sparse on the facts, we'd need to get some more facts before we're
going to print it.
ARTHUR MILLER: Restraint.
[01:23:05]
MARTIN NOLAN: I hope so. I think so. But I think generally, you look at the paper every day,
or any paper, and I don't think you'll see a lot of fanciful speculation very much.
ARTHUR MILER: I'm tempted to ask. In an age of Woodward and Bernstein, in an age in
which every newspaper and television station has investigative reporting, and in an age in which
every major event of our time is provisioned by the press, how come the press didn't have the
Iran story for 11 months?
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
MARTIN NOLAN: Not too many bureaus in Tehran, as you may have noticed. Again, you're
dealing with an absolute dictatorship.
ARTHUR MILLER: You mean Washington or Tehran? [laughter]
[01:23:50]
MARTIN NOLAN: Tehran, the story was in Tehran. Without Tehran, there's no story. The
arms were going to Tehran. Colonel McFarlane and his Irish passport were going to Iran. And
it's the same reason we don't have much coverage of the Iran/Iraq war; they don't have press
secretaries and directors of communication. They don't have a free press. So that's, I think, the
principal reason. Foreign operation. And that's the danger of them, is that they're easy to get
away with. I think that's exactly what David was saying.
ARTHUR MILLER: You don't think the story could have been gotten in Washington?
[01:24:29]
DAVID GERGEN: The whole point of the way they carried it out was that only half a dozen
people knew in the White House. Probably not more than two or three in State and apparently
even less than that in Defense. And a very, very small handful of people at the CIA. When you
have that small a number of people who know, it's relatively easy to protect the secret. That was
the very game they were playing. But they didn't tell a lot of people at the State Department, they
didn't tell a lot of the White House staff, they didn't tell the Congress. Those are the places where
you often get these stories; that's why they didn't leak out. But the price you pay for that is one
we're now seeing in the kind of policy decisions that were made.
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: Is the press conference, as it now is run, helpful to the press or the
country. Mr. Nolan?
[01:25:37]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
MARTIN NOLAN: No and no. Its current format is sort of a tactical maneuver of the spin
patrol. What Poindexter can't get done on the Today Show and what McFarlane can't make
happen on Good Morning America, we have to drag out the President, hoping that these loutish
reporters in the White House press room, of whom I am a former inmate, will be so aggressive as
to make the American people sympathetic with this amiable, good person who's trying to do the
best thing with the hostages. And they're nitpicking him, and they're asking him all these silly,
boring, detailed questions. I think that's why he's having the press conference. He doesn't want to
have the press conference to give out more information; he's given out as much information as he
wanted to. That's what I think. And of course, David really knows the motivations better than I.
[01:26:33]
DAVID GERGEN: I was an inmate on the other side for a while. And I can tell you, I think the
televised big press conference in the East Room of the White House has become a media theatre
event, and it's obsolete, and we ought to go to other kinds of forums. I was responsible for trying
to work with the President frequently preparing for press conferences, President Reagan, and
also worked with some other Presidents on it. And you can anticipate before you get out the door
about 80% of the questions – not the exact wording, but sometimes even almost the exact
wording – that the reporters are going to ask. And they can also anticipate 80% of the answers.
[01:27:15]
So it's an exercise. It's like a Kabuki play. It doesn't lend itself to what we really need, and that is
an exploration of policy and the President's thinking about policy, why he does things. I feel very
strongly we ought to find different kinds of formats in which one or two or three reporters come
in to the President's office and really have a discussion, a conversation, and get at these things.
And let them pursue issues more thoroughly.
[01:27:43]
Beyond that, I think it's even more important that we preserve though some institution because I
think that's part of the accountability. Absent the parliamentary system, it does seem that the
press conference is the best substitute we have for asking questions of the chief executive. And
think it's terribly, terribly critical that it occur.
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
ARTHUR MILLER: At this point, we only have time for one or two final questions. Yes,
ma'am?
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is, what is the responsibility of the press in terms of
projecting the image of the Soviet Union that is currently advanced by our government. Mr.
Gergen?
[01:29:17]
DAVID GERGEN: Well, I must confess that I happen to believe that there is something
inherently evil in a totalitarian system, whether it's the Soviets or anybody else. I think that kind
of suppression of individuals is something which is, I think– I think it is evil. I don't think we
ought to be willing to face up to that reality. That's does not mean we can't find a way to live
with the Soviets; we have to do that, too. I think the responsibility of the press in that situation is
to report as accurately as we can the nature of Soviet society. It is true, I think, that the Russian
people by and large are not interested in having conflict with us. There are many of them who
would like greater freedom. I think we ought to report on the dissidents who want greater
freedom. I think we ought to report on the cultural liberalization that's going on there.
[01:30:11]
I think it's important, just as it's important we not be taken in by the Reagan administration on
any particular world viewpoint it might have. I think it's equally important we not be taken in by
the Gorbachev regime, that we look very carefully at its actions as well as its words. It's trying to
project a PR image now. And we have to look behind that.
[01:30:32]
But I think the main thing is, we ought to be just as objective as we can and let the American
people be ready to decide, or the government decide how to conduct policy. But I don't think it's
our role to be the helpmate for either side.
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Nolan?
[01:30:46]
MARTIN NOLAN: I agree. The most important thing about the Soviet system, about the
bureaucrats and everyone, the thousands of people who run it, they're not like us. They don't
share our values. The Russian people have never known democracy. They had it for about six
months in 1917. And there is no democratic tradition there. There is no feeling of openness and
open dialogue like we have here tonight.
And part of their cultural and ideological heritage is an imperative towards aggressive,
expansionist behavior. Now, that's a fact. That doesn't mean we have to throw nuclear bombs at
each other. But I think that is the dominant fact of foreign policy today.
ARTHUR MILLER: Our last question?
QUESTION FROM AUDIENCE: [off mic]
ARTHUR MILLER: The question is, and I think I'm interpreting this right, with the growth in
mergers, particularly in the media industry, is that going to affect reporting? Mr. Nolan?
[01:32:13]
MARTIN NOLAN: Well, I'm afraid so. I think it's more of a danger now in the electronic
media. The conglomerate mergers that have dominated the print industry, the daily newspapers,
in many cases have actually improved local papers. I've seen independent, small papers in small
cities that weren't too good. And if they're bought by a chain, they actually improve; and they
improve by firing people. And there are only a few large, independent newspapers left. Knock on
wood. And the way they have to survive is by trying to acquire some smaller ones because it's
only a game for empires now.
[01:33:02]
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
But I don't think it really will affect the coverage of corporate America. I think it will in
television, I really do. I think when you get General Electric buying RCA, which already owned
NBC, I don't think if I were an NBC consumer reporter I'd like to be checking how the light
bulbs are working. I don't think I'd try to get on the air with that story; it's just a natural prudence.
And if I were working for CBS, I wouldn't think this is a hot time for an expose of the Loews
Theatre chain.
[01:33:33]
So I do think that the conglomeratization is going to affect electronic, but because even chainowned newspapers still have a local root and depend every day on the affirmation of people
putting out their 25 cents. That is an enormous check and a balance on any sort of getting into
bed with some corporate giant. I'm lucky; I've worked for 25 years for a paper that's survived by
rectitude and doing the right thing, and that made money besides. That's pretty good. And I wish
every newspaper could do the same. But I don't worry about them as much as I worry about
television.
ARTHUR MILLER: Mr. Gergen?
[01:34:13]
DAVID GERGEN: Yeah, I think he's captured it exactly right. And what you now find in a lot
of smaller papers around the country is that they're picking up the services that go along. If
you're part of the Gannett chain, there is a Gannett Washington bureau, for instance, that sends
out stories. I think that a lot of local newspapers that have been bought by Gannett have been
enriched by that. Similarly, I think a lot of newspapers around the country are being enriched by
the New York Times service. You can go somewhere out in Denver now and read a story by Bill
Beecher from the Globe. And the Philadelphia Inquirer today has a story from the Globe. I think
that's wonderful because I think it really does enrich the coverage that goes on.
[01:34:47]
The danger is, you start pulling your punches, particularly on the editorial page, and some of the
kind of investigative work that you want to do. And I think that danger is out there. It's really a
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�MS113.0050 Transcript
question of case-by-case with local editors fighting for their independence and be willing to go
after the tough stories. Because otherwise, the press has little relevance.
ARTHUR MILLER: At this point, let me thank our two speakers – Martin Nolan, editorial
page editor of the Boston Globe; and David Gergen, editor of US News and World Report. And
our thanks to the audience for being here tonight. [applause]
END
END OF RECORDING
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42
�
Dublin Core
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
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The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
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David Gergen, Arthur Miller, and Martin F. Nolan discuss, The Rights and Responsibilities of a Free Press at the Ford Hall Forum [audio recording and transcript]
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16 November 1986
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Ford Hall Forum
Nolan, Martin F.
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Miller, Arthur R. (Arthur Raphael), 1934-
Gergen, David
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0050
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Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
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Forums (Discussion and debate)
Freedom of the press -- United States
United States -- Constitution-- 1st Amendment
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;font-style:normal;">Ford Hall Forum</span>
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MS113.0050
Ford Hall Forum
Free speech
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
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The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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David Halberstam's speech, "The Effect of Sports on American Society" at the Ford Hall Forum (audio recording)
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4 October 1984
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David Halberstam, the author of The Best and the Brightest and The Powers That Be, examines professional sports and their effect on American culture. The Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist ponders the similarities between sports and politics, the influence of television on sports and college recruitment of our young athletes.
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Ford Hall Forum
Halberstam, David
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
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Ford Hall Forum
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Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
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Transcript of Doris Kearns Goodwin Forum
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: Doris Kearns Goodwin: “The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys: an American saga,” at Ford
Hall Forum.
Recording Date: July 28, 1988
Item Information: Doris Kearns Goodwin: “The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys : an American
saga,” at Ford Hall Forum. Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013 (MS113.3.1, item 0016)
Moakley Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: audio recording and transcript available at http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Copyright Information: Copyright © 1988 Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Summary:
Transcription of a Ford Hall Forum that featured biographer Doris Kearn Goodwin discussing
her book "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys: an American saga" at the John F. Kennedy Library
in Boston. Goodwin goes behind the lace curtains of two families which gave rise to Camelot in
America -- the Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys. She also describes her previous book project on
Lyndon Johnson.
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Transcript Begins
[00:00:26]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: Thank you. There's probably no place that is better for me to
be than here. It's like coming home, as it was said, because so much of the research over the last
ten years took place not only in this building, but in the old days when the Kennedy Library was
still storing its materials in Waltham, in what is now the Federal Records Center there, that's
where I really began. And to be able to come and actually talk and finally know that it's done, so
I don't have to answer that question I've been asking– for ten years people would say, "When are
you going to be done?" I'm done, and here I am! So I'm very glad to be here.
[00:00:40]
But I thought before I talked a little bit about the research and the writing of The Fitzgeralds and
the Kennedys, I'd give you a sense of the context in which I started this book ten long years ago
because a lot of the kind of materials that I wanted to concentrate on came out of that experience.
I had just finished then, my biography on President Johnson and was really trying to come to
psychological terms with the whole experience of having been close to that man for the last five
years of his life. He was probably the most powerful person I have ever met in my entire life. He
was a man who should have, in his retirement, had everything to be grateful for; his career in
politics had reached its culmination in his becoming President of the United States. Or as he
preferred to call himself, Leader of the Whole Western World. He was in good health. He had all
the money he needed to pursue any leisure activity. He had several houses, cars, apartments,
boats, a pool with floating phones and Muzak, and floating sandwiches on floating trays. He had
a movie theatre and any movie he wanted to see. He had servants and the opportunity to travel.
[00:01:42]
And yet, the man I saw in those last years was a man who had been so immersed for so many
years in the pursuit of power and work and individual success that he really had no emotional
resources left to commit himself to anything, not even his family, now that the power and the
presidency was gone. In fact, he could barely get through the days. It was almost as if those
muscles of enjoying family life, reading, travel or recreation had gone unused for so long that he
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couldn't call on them at the end of his life. And I'm convinced that as his spirits continued to sag,
his body finally deteriorated until he slowly brought about his own death, spending his last days
sadly and literally counting how many people were coming to visit his birth house, how many
people were coming to his library. He so wanted more people to come to his library than came to
his library in hopes that it was a signal somehow that he wouldn't be forgotten after all.
[00:02:38]
In fact, there were times when I imagine if he ever knew that the next book I worked on was one
on the Kennedys after him [laughter], and that it was longer than the one on him. He'd be sitting
there counting the pages and saying, "It's not fair, how could you have written 400 more pages
on them than on me?"
[00:02:54]
But that experience of watching him, I think, really affected the central question that I brought
with me to this new book. My fascination with the Kennedy family stemmed not so much with a
single individual, but rather with the dynamics of that extraordinary family structure. I was a
young mother myself during these last ten years and I kept coming back and back to the question
of what it was that seemed to keep the bonds of this family so strong, despite a pursuit of power
that was equal in intensity to Lyndon Johnson's, despite a drive for success equal to his, and
despite an uncommon brush with tragedy. So that's really want I wanted to try and find out in the
historical research for this book.
The experience with Lyndon Johnson affected one other sense of the way I did this book, too,
because I think the kind of historical research that makes up the texture of the book was
something that I knew I wanted to do because of all the time I had spent with him. After all, he
was one of the greatest storytellers, Lyndon Johnson, of all time. The problem was that half his
stories weren't true. [laughter] And I learned that more and more as time went on. So I was
determined to do as much research on my own before interviewing all the subjects that I was
going to talk to for this book so that I could bring a texture to my interviews and have some
check on these stories
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[00:04:07]
I think the funniest story of that with Lyndon Johnson had to do with one day I was swimming
with him in the pool, which was an incredible experience because of all these floating trays and
floating sandwiches around; you sort of worked your way around it. And you side stroked up and
down the pool. And I had just finished reading a book on him by Hugh Sidey, and in the book
Sidey had this wonderful paragraph in which he talked about the fact that Johnson had given a
very rousing speech as President to the troops in Korea; he'd gone over to visit them. And he
talked about the fact that his great-great-grandfather had died at the Battle of the Alamo. And
Sidey said it was a wonderful speech; there was only one big problem and that was that his greatgreat-grandfather hadn't died at the Battle of the Alamo. [laughter] It was just that he wanted him
to have died there. [laughter]
[00:04:46]
So I said to him as we were swimming through these trays, I said, "How could you say that if it
didn't happen?" And so, he turned to me and he said, "Oh, you journalists, you're such sticklers
for detail." [laughter] And then he said, "You'd make me remember the color of the wallpaper in
the room where I first made love." And then he goes on to say for a wonderful half-hour, he said,
"As a matter of fact, my great-great-grandfather died at the Battle of San Jacinto. And then I got
a great lesson in the history of Texas on how that battle was much more important than the Battle
of the Alamo. And by the time he finished, he was so persuasive, this man, that I was sure, well,
maybe he's right and Sidey was picking him up on a little detail. Until when I did my own
biography on him and did my own research, his great-great-grandfather had died at home in bed
and hadn't seen San Jacinto either. [laughter]
[00:05:27]
So that experience, along with many others, convinced me that memory has a way of tricking all
of us, especially people in public life who've been telling stories for such a long time they get
used to the effect of the story being more important than the truth. And with people who've been
interviewed so many times, they really forget, I think, what really happened. It's true of all of us
to a certain extent, but much more true when you've told the stories more often.
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So I discovered that the best check on individual memory, even though memory brings a book
alive, so you want those interviews, is really the stuff of history – documents, letters, maps, old
newspaper accounts. And I discovered in the process of going through all that stuff of history
that I absolutely adored historical research. So much so that the real problem in finishing this
book came in how to get myself out of each different era so that I could get into the next era,
because it started way back in 1863, and I somehow had to get up to the inauguration.
[00:06:21]
I can still recall the excitement at the various discoveries along the way that I'd like to share a
little bit with you today. That's the pleasure of being an historian, when you discover something
and you know it's going to be something you can use. For example, I can still remember the day
when I was sitting in the old City Map Room in the Boston Public Library and found in that
room old plot plans and actual dimensions of what the tenement houses looked like and the size
of them on Hanover Street in the North End in the 1860s where Rose Kennedy's parents were
born and where they came from. Those figures allowed me to see that in the rear flats of these
tenements, which were four or five stories high, they looked out onto adjoining buildings equally
high, only four inches away. As a result, anybody who didn't live on the top floor, there was
absolutely no sunlight coming into those rear flats.
And that gave me an understanding of a comment by a young girl that I'd read in a book by
Jacob Riis, a classic work on poverty, in which he quoted a little girl saying that all her girlhood
she had dreamed of one thing, of living in a flat where sunlight would come directly into her
face. When you see those dimensions, I suddenly had a sense of what it might have been like to
live in those tenements at that time.
[00:07:32]
Then, too, I can remember as if it were yesterday the first time I walked into St. Stephen's
Church on Hanover Street, a church built by Bulfinch, an absolutely beautiful church. And I
knew that it had been restored by Cardinal Cushing to look exactly as it had looked in 1863 when
my book opens with the baptism in that church of John Fitzgerald, Rose's father. As soon as I
saw the majesty of that place and was able to contrast it in my mind with the filth and the
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ugliness of the surrounding slums, I understood more deeply than I had before the magic of the
immigrant church. It was in fact a bulwark of beauty and order in an otherwise chaotic world of
the slums, opening up to the immigrants an inner world of sounds, of smells and of privacy in
such contrast to the noisy neighborhood in which they lived.
[00:08:21]
Then I remember another day the pleasure of discovering a handwritten diary by a Catholic
priest in the 1860s that described the fragility of life in immigrant Boston. Every night, he said,
in a somewhat irritated tone, he would be called out to administer last rites to feverish children.
"I can never sleep," he said, "because the parents keep assuming their children are dying, even
when they're not dying." But as one looked at the medical understanding of that time, most
parents had seen one child die. As a result, when another child got sick, there was no way of
knowing that child might get well.
[00:08:53]
The state of medicine was so primitive, there was so little understanding of the cause or the cure
of most of the diseases that descended upon the cities, from cholera to tuberculosis. In fact, when
I think of the panic that AIDS has produced in us today, one can imagine what it must have been
like to live in an era where disease after disease came upon a neighborhood and there was
absolutely no understanding of why it was coming or when it would go.
[00:09:16]
Medical practices were so primitive. I remember the day I found in the Rare Books Room of the
Harvard Medical School some old papers of doctors, and they were complaining about this new
practice of cleanliness that was being introduced into operations and how inconvenient it was.
And as I saw some of the descriptions of how they were beginning, reluctantly, to put it into
practice, if a doctor or a surgeon dropped an instrument on the floor during the operation, he
would pick it up, blow on it, and then return it to use. So one can imagine what was going on in
those days.
[00:09:45]
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In a lighter vein, I remember the delight when I found an old set of materials on the peddling
profession. Rose Kennedy's father John Fitzgerald, his father in turn, her grandfather Thomas
Fitzgerald, the first Irishman who came here to America, was a peddler at the beginning in the
North End. So this is what happens. As an historian, I started finding all sorts of books on
peddling. It gives you a great excuse to read whatever you want to read.
And my favorite piece of this book had to do with the fact, they were telling the story of a
Richard Sears who was a telegraph operator in Minnesota. And one day a shipment of watches
came in to his train station and no one picked them up. So he decided to peddle them and see if
he could make money. Well, he sold them all and made a good profit, so he decided to become a
peddler full-time; and he did mostly watches. So then one day he decided he'd better put an ad in
the paper to get someone to repair the watches. And he did, and the ad was responded to by
Alvah Roebuck. And that was how Sears and Roebuck was eventually formed. And you just sit
there, and it's so exciting to find it out.
[00:10:44]
Or even now, when I walk past the corner of Beacon and Park Street, right across from the State
House, I know that is where John Fitzgerald, Rose's father, stood as a newspaper boy for two
years when he worked full time between high school and going further on to school. I can
imagine his delight – and I heard him tell Rose; I mean, he told Rose about it – when he first saw
the world of Beacon Hill for the first time from that corner. He talked to his daughter about
seeing silk-hatted coachmen for the first time; women with fur robes in their carriages and fur
muffs on their hands. And he told her that it became a sight that he craved for the rest of his life.
He wanted his children to have that kind of world, to have the access to it.
It's one of the special things about Boston. What was then the tenements of the North End were
so close to what was the Beacon Hill and the Brahmin world that one could see and get visions
and dream as a result.
[00:11:34]
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I remember another day laughing aloud in the library out in Holy Cross where Rose Kennedy's
father John Fitzgerald's papers were, some of those were out there, at discovering the story of his
relationship with a woman by the unfortunate name of Tootles. It was hard to imagine her as an
intellectual companion to Mayor Fitzgerald with this name of Tootles. The story is a wonderful
story in Boston history because it turned out that Fitzgerald was a far more substantial mayor
than I had realized. He was in his second term. He was actually a much more substantial figure
than Curley was at that time, James Michael Curley, and he wanted to run for a third term. But
Curley wanted to run for his first term as mayor, and he was very upset that Fitzgerald was going
to run. Because all the equivalent of polls – which weren't polls, but people and leaders in those
days – said that Fitzgerald would win hands down.
[00:12:21]
But for the fact that Curley found out that Fitzgerald liked to go to this Ferncroft Inn in Danvers
where this young lady named Tootles was a cigarette girl and he had a sort of thing with her. So
Curley sent a letter to the Fitzgerald household with a black-bordered envelope around it,
threatening him that, if he ran again, he would expose this relationship.
[00:12:40]
But still, Fitzgerald stayed in the race until Curley finally decided he had to take more public
action. Sometimes I walk around and I see posters for lectures and I picture these. He decided to
have a series of public lectures contrasting ancient and modern times given by a professor at
Fordham. So the first lecture was going to be corruption in ancient and modern times. And he
had the professor at Fordham describe how in the old days the Roman senators used to divert the
waters from the aqueduct into their own homes to use so they didn't have to pay for water. Well,
so, too, he claimed, all of John Fitzgerald's brothers– Fitzgerald had nine brothers, and just like
the Kennedys later – it was a wonderful echo – they were all involved at city hall so that the
newspapers kept talking about the imperial Fitzgeralds and the Fitzgerald dynasty. And he
claimed that they all had their water meters taken out of their house and they weren't paying their
water bills. [laughter] So a lot of people came to this lecture, evidently.
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But then the next one had the posters up. And the next lecture was entitled, with posters all over,
"Great Lovers in Western History." [laughter] And the subtitle was, "From Cleopatra to Tootles."
[laughter] I gather as soon as Fitzgerald saw these posters, he decided that the wisdom would be
to back out of the race, which he did. And fascinatingly, he never won political office again.
Curley then went on to become the figure in Boston politics.
I remember one day when I was talking to Mrs. Kennedy, when she was about 90, she still had
that feeling of anger toward Curley, saying, "You know, if it hadn't been for him, my father
would have been the one of the last hurrah, the one they were all writing about." But they got
back at Curley later on, believe me.
[00:14:09]
But I guess perhaps the greatest delight in this whole process came, which John alluded to, in the
ability to use this 150 cartons of previously unused material. After I'd been at research for a
couple years, it turned out that the Kennedy family had had all these boxes of things they had
saved all these years, Joe and Rose Kennedy, in the attic in Hyannisport, in Joe's Park Avenue
offices in New York. They finally sent them to the library for safekeeping, though they weren't
yet opened for ordinary research.
[00:14:35]
I got permission from Senator Kennedy to go through them. And precisely because they hadn't
been catalogued yet, so that everything was chaotically mixed together, you really felt that you
were getting an insight into the way a family lived. Everything was there. They had saved
memos from the old days in all the businesses Joe was in. Old report cards from Joe and Rose's
days in school. Letters from old boyfriends, Joe and Rose's. Thousands of letters to their
children. Stockbroker sheets. Ticket stubs from plays they went to. Dance cards. Even one day
Gloria Swanson's income tax statements popped out of a folder on something else. [laughter]
And the documents were so fascinating in their own right and did, in fact, give me a spate of new
discoveries. Again, I can remember one day when I was going through the 1920s and trying to
discover what it was like for Joe to be a stockbroker in the 1920s. And it's so interesting, in those
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materials, we talk about insider trading today; well, in those days they could simply, without the
SEC being even in existence, write one another, the guys on the top, and say, "I hear you're
getting a new business, or you're going to acquire a new company. Shouldn't I buy stock before
you do so?" And the guy would write back, "Oh, yes, do it tomorrow and then no one else will
know." This was all in letters, written.
[00:15:41]
But then you read about the impact that that insider trading has on all the people who don't know
what's going on, just as it happens today, who put their life savings in assuming the market is
fairly fair. And you read about it, but I didn't understand it emotionally until one day I came
upon a letter and it was huddled somehow in a folder on the Bronxville house mortgage. And it
was actually a death threat to Joe Kennedy from a man who had put all his life savings in a stock
in which Joe Kennedy and his friends had built it up – they used to form pools in those days –
and then they all would get out when the money got high and leave all the people in at the
bottom to lose their life savings. It was a standard practice at the time of the insiders.
[00:16:19]
Well, this man wrote: "You have your Rolls Royces, you have your cars, you have your servants,
but we now have nothing. And I just want you to understand that you've destroyed our lives, and
some day I'm going to get you." And why he saved that all that time, what it meant– just
emotionally I can remember the feeling I had, that I finally understood something about the
inequity of the system in the 1920s when these people would be destroyed when the people on
the top were able to make their money.
But I suppose the funniest moment in this whole business of memory and documents came over
the issue of Gloria Swanson. I was able to go down and see Mrs. Kennedy quite a lot during the
time when she was 88 – she was young – 90, 92; she will now be 97 this summer. And in those
years, she was acute in her memory of the far distant past, and she loved to talk about her days
and her girlhood days in Boston. And I think the pleasure I had and the pleasure she had in our
conversations came from the fact I'd done so much research. All these years of sitting in the
library meant that when she brought up something about Boston, I could keep the conversation
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going. She'd mention something to me, partial memory, I'd go back and do more research. The
next time I saw her, I could bring her an old clipping from a newspaper, or bring her a picture, or
bring her some copy of one of these things, and that's what would stimulate her memory all the
more.
[00:17:35]
And I can remember at nighttime we'd go out and take walks together. She was athletic, even
then, it was incredible. She was still swimming, taking long walks at night. But she did seem
frail and I was always so afraid that she'd fall and something would happen to her, and I'd feel
terrible. She meanwhile was constantly worried about me falling in some pothole, and she'd say,
"Dearie, be careful, there's a little pothole over here." She had her flashlight and she took
complete charge of the walks.
But given that kind of a relationship, which was really formed as an historian talking to an older
woman who loved talking about the past, there was just no way that I really had the chutzpah to
say to her, "Would you like to talk to me about Gloria Swanson?" I'm not Barbara Walters; there
were times when I thought I needed a little Barbara Walters in me, but I didn't have it.
[00:18:17]
And so, I just knew it was going to have to go unasked and unanswered, even though I knew
from Joe's papers that he'd had a very long, working involvement with Gloria. I knew from
Gloria's memoirs that they had had more than a working involvement. I knew from all the people
I'd interview in Hollywood that it was clear that they'd had a relationship. And I did understand
the impact of that relationship on the family's life.
You can imagine my surprise when one day Rose turned to me at lunch and she said, "Oh, I'd
like to talk to you about Gloria Swanson today." I thought I was going to faint. And then the
story she told me was so wonderful; it was just such a great image of two older women later in
their lives battling for something, even though Gloria was already dead by then.
[00:18:51]
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Gloria had written her memoirs in which she said that the three of them had taken a trip to
Europe together on a boat, which was in the late 1920s. And on the boat she said Joe was so
attentive to her. They were going over because Gloria was producing a movie in France, which
Joe had backed for her. And Joe was so attentive to her that she said she couldn't understand why
Rose wasn't furious with her. But instead, Rose was always solicitous, graceful and charming.
And Gloria concluded either Rose was naive, a saint or an even better actress than she was.
[laughter]
[00:19:21]
So then suddenly Mrs. Kennedy started saying, "I'd like to tell you about this boat trip on the
way over to Europe. Poor, poor, poor Gloria." And I said, "What do you mean, poor Gloria?"
And then she described how on the way over Gloria found out because a letter came to her, it
was supposed to be addressed to her husband who was the Marquis de la Falaise of France, but it
came to the wrong gender, marquis instead of marquess, or something like that, so it got to
Gloria. And it was a love letter from Constance Bennett to her husband, Gloria's husband. And
Gloria was so sad and so upset that she cried the whole way over.
And I could really see a little relish in Mrs. Kennedy's voice [laughter] as she told me how "I had
to put my arms around her, and Joe and I had to comfort her the whole way over. I felt so badly
for her." So I thought this is incredible; one woman 90, the other 84, telling this very different
tale.
[00:20:05]
And so, I decided I would describe the boat trip at length. So I went and I found out it was the Ile
de France, and I knew it was the first stock ticker. Irving Berlin was on the same trip. They used
to print passenger lists in those days. And then I can remember one day, I was here in the library
to find evidence that they hadn't even been on the same boat together. I thought then, what is
going on? And the story actually had an answer to it, which was that Gloria deliberately wanted
to remember they were on that boat going to Europe together because she then used it as a
conclusion that she lost her husband because of Joe's attentiveness to her. The husband felt very
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bad, but she'd rather lose the husband because of her actions than some woman from the outside
coming in, right?
[00:20:40]
And so, they hadn't gone over together. She had found out about Connie Bennett when they were
in Europe. And they came back on the boat together. Not a huge discrepancy, but one that both
women remembered the same way, for some reason. And I think it was just such a great,
wondrous way of understanding how memory serves the purposes, because for Mrs. Kennedy,
she then said, "Because Gloria felt so bad when we got to Europe, all the photographers were
going to take pictures of us getting off the boat. But I was so exhausted from taking care of her
the whole time that I stayed in the stateroom and Joe went out on the deck with her to try and
keep her together. And that's when those photographers took pictures, and that's when all those
silly stories started."
So we all have ways of remembering the past as we want to.
But in these documents, what I found, they were scrapbooks and pictures, I found pictures of
Mrs. Kennedy at age 17 when she was the daughter of the mayor. And it was clear from these
pictures that she went everywhere with her father. There was a look of defiance, of beauty – she
was a beautiful young girl – even of sensuality in her face that I'd never really seen before. She'd
be with him at the christening of a ship. Her mother hated politics, so she became the father's
hostess. She would be the one going with him to throw out the first ball at Fenway Park. She'd be
the one going to the opening of Symphony Hall. A jaunty confidence in this young girl, as if she
had a world without limits. Which indeed she did seem to have.
[00:21:56]
She was very smart in high school. I remember she told me she was almost number one in her
class, but she just couldn't beat Tom. And she said that again with a real emotional memory, as
if, "Darn Tom, I wish I had beaten him out." But she didn't think the world ever understood that
she was intelligent as she had been. And she had gotten into Wellesley College in her junior year
in high school and was all set to go, two weeks away from going, in fact. And she told me one
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day when I talked to her and asked her about her regrets in life that this was one of the things that
made her saddest all of her long life, the fact that two weeks before she was ready to go, her
father came home and he simply told her that she was going to go instead to the Convent of the
Sacred Heart.
[00:22:35]
And what happened was, he had met the Cardinal of Boston on the street corner, told him Rose
was going to Wellesley. The Cardinal was very upset that his daughter was being sent to a
secular school. So the father, to please the Cardinal, decided to just shift her to the Convent of
the Sacred Heart, which wasn't a college system then. It later became one. And as a result, she
went here in Boston. And then the following year, she was sent off to the Convent of the Sacred
Heart in what was then Prussia, a very strict convent where you had silence for five hours a day,
where you had to wake up at five in the morning without heat because they were trying to teach
you certain things like nuns would learn.
In the letters she wrote home to her girlfriends, who did go to Wellesley – her three best friends
went; they were all going to go together – suggested a terrible sense of loneliness and a real
understanding that her life was not what it would have been had she gone to college. My own
sense in looking at the sadness she was still expressing at age 90 was that she felt betrayed by her
father even more deeply because she had always thought he loved her, which he did, but she had
to understand that he was putting his needs before hers.
[00:23:32]
The interesting thing, however, is that it was in that convent system that she found her faith. I
had always thought she'd been born as a nun, but in fact she really hadn't. It was during those
years that she became such a good student of the Sacred Heart that the faith came into her. And it
was that faith, as we all know, that gave her the strength to get through life's ravages.
[00:23:50]
And it also was interesting that the fact that her father had not allowed her to do this, I think,
gave her the courage later to turn against him and marry the man she loved, Joe Kennedy.
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Fitzgerald never quite thought Joe had enough prospects for his daughter Rosie, and he kept her
from marrying him for eight years. But finally, after a long courtship, I think she was able to say
yes to this man she loved, even though her father didn't want her to, because of that sense of
disappointment in her father early on. And yet, never again, I think, after that experience was she
quite as radiant, quite as much filled with a sense of limitlessness and her own independent
ambitions as she was at 17.
[00:24:27]
But all of that drive and ambition that she'd had as a young girl I think got turned toward her
family. It was probably the source of her determination to create within her family the love of
politics and ritual that she had experienced every day in the Irish neighborhood of Boston. It
wasn't so easy to do in Brookline in the 1920s. It was an era when the immigrant church as a
whole was losing its force. Political parties were no longer as dominated by the ward bosses in
the neighborhoods where politics had been an essential part of these immigrants' lives. Politics
was no longer the same source of entertainment that it had once been.
[00:25:01]
But she decided she was going to build these things into her family, even if it wasn't happening
in the larger world outside. In fact, she had for a while felt so isolated in Brookline and so
frustrated at being home all day with Joe out to work and not having that exciting world she'd
once had – three kids, a fourth on the way – she actually left Joe for a period of time, went home
to her father in a way of trying to sort out "what am I going to do?" And that's when she came
back determined somehow to build all the things she loved into her family.
[00:25:29]
So from then on, she started taking the kids on historical tours every day. I can imagine her
dressing them, dragging them out. They'd go to Bunker Hill one day, to Concord another day.
She would then have things to talk about with Joe when he came home, things that she had
enjoyed. And it was then that she up the rituals at dinner, that they would not only sit and eat at
dinner at the same time every night, but – incredible to me, having two little kids; it's enough to
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get them to do that – she was going to put on bulletin boards the discussions and the issues they
would discuss that night at dinner. [laughter]
[00:25:55]
It was then that she was certain that the Church was going to become a part of everyday life, not
just something to go to on Sundays. And yet, it's so fascinating to see the patterns over
generations because, here, when Rose grew older, when her daughters started growing up, when
they got to the choice of whether they would go to college or the Convents of the Sacred Heart,
despite the fact that she had been so hurt by that decision, she absolutely insisted that every
daughter go to a Convent of the Sacred Heart instead of to college.
[00:26:22]
And so, too, though she had finally gone against her father's wishes and decided that love won
out to marry Joe, when her daughter Kathleen fell in love with the Duke of Devonshire's son,
Billy Hartington, she could not give her any acceptance of that marriage because he was a
Protestant young man. It was really the first great family crisis. She and Kathleen had been so
close; they were like mother and daughter– more than that, like sisters. They'd traveled to Russia
together, they'd traveled to Europe together. And Kathleen so wanted her mother's support when
she married Billy in 1944.
[00:26:56]
It went back and forth. They tried to get the Vatican to give some sort of dispensation so they
could get married, but Billy couldn't bring up his kids Catholic because he was in the Church of
England. And when there was finally going to be no technical way to do it, Kathleen went ahead
and married him anyway, but still hoping that her mother would send some note that said she
approved. But instead, a cable came to Kathleen right before she married: "Heartbroken. You've
been wrongly influenced. I'm sending Archie Spell" – who was Cardinal Spellman; they had to
have codes in their telegrams – "sending Archie Spell to talk. Anything done in the name of Our
Lord will be rewarded hundredfold."
[00:27:29]
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But the breach was never healed between mother and daughter because she had to marry Billy
then or it might have been years later because he was going back to the war. So she did marry
him, and then four months later Billy was killed in World War II. And Kathleen always believed
somehow that her mother believed that it was God's will that Billy be killed because it allowed
Kathleen back into the Church again.
So that love of the mother and daughter was really hurt by the very thing that Rose had gone
through in her earlier life, but wasn't able to change around when it came to mother and daughter
later on.
[00:28:01]
I think the most difficult moment in my interviews with Mrs. Kennedy surrounded the whole
question of Rosemary, the retarded daughter. I remember one day we were in the house and we
passed a picture of Rosemary, and she said to me what I didn't understand then, she said, "You
know, the day Joe had that operation done on Rosemary, she went all the way back, after all the
years I spent, trying to give her tutors, trying to make everything okay for her." And it turned out
from later research that what she meant by that was that Joe had found out in the 1940/'41 period
about a new operation called a lobotomy, which promised to bring relief for people like
Rosemary who was becoming more and more frustrated as she reached her early 20s with the
limitations that her retardation had brought about on her, so much so that she was reacting
violently to the people around her.
[00:28:44]
And this operation, incredibly enough, promised that if you took out a certain part of the brain,
the part that controlled anticipation of the future, you could still function day-to-day because that
was a different part of your brain. So with an ice pick, either through the eye or a saw that went
through one's head actually, they cut that part of the brain out. And somehow, they had all these
case studies that claim that people would wake up on the operating table suddenly feeling great.
And the guy won a Nobel Prize for this operation.
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We now know how devastating it was. And in Rosemary's case, it was even more so because
something actually went wrong, even more than usual and she couldn't even speak after the
operation was finished.
[00:29:23]
And when Rose told me about the fact that Joe had had this operation done, but hadn't shared the
knowledge with her that he was going to do it, then I saw, for the only time really, a bitterness in
her towards her husband, whom she absolutely adored. But obviously, that sense– she said, "I
might have even gone along with it, but I didn't get the chance to have the knowledge that it was
happening."
[00:29:40]
Joe Kennedy was an extremely complex man, with enormous strengths and enormous
weaknesses. The documents in the Kennedy papers provided new insights into him as far as I
was concerned. I think I understood more the source of his continuing drive to make his kids
succeed. It really was in the unfulfilled longings that he had experienced growing up here in
Boston. Had he come as an Irishman to another city, it might have been different, but here he
kept banging his head against all the Protestant establishment. He wanted in to that world. Most
people didn't care, but he cared about not getting into the clubs at Harvard, about not getting into
a golf club in Cohasset. So he made a decision early on, I think, that he was never going to give
loyalty to any institution or any organization because he'd been so hurt by Harvard, by the clubs,
beyond his family. But he was going to make sure that his family got to walk wherever they
wanted to go. It was really that sense. A lot of people, when they reach positions of wealth and
power stop; they don't need to keep striving. But he still had to strive because there were these
unfulfilled longings in him.
[00:30:38]
And yet, the interesting thing is, though those kids were part of his own dreams, he also loved
those kids more than I had understood. There was a single-mindedness in his approach to that
family that produced in those kids an adoration of their father, unlike any I've really ever seen in
public life. The letters that he wrote to his kids, which numbered in the hundreds upon hundreds,
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revealed a far warmer, shrewder, much more tolerant father than Rose was even as a mother.
And the children adored him.
[00:31:06]
I think the key was that he always gave them love, whatever they did. But he held out his respect
for them as something to be earned depending on how hard they worked and how well they did.
And the thing is that most children of powerful parents, especially a powerful father and his sons,
they're stunted by growing up in the shadow of that great oak. These kids grew beyond their
father, and I think he deserves the credit for that more than I had known.
[00:31:30]
I guess the thing that was the hardest to try and understand was the emergence of young John
Fitzgerald Kennedy within this family structure. He had so many more difficulties to overcome
than I had understood. Because within the family, it was clear that Joe, Jr., the eldest son, was
indeed the golden child. I'd always heard that, but these papers made it even clearer than I knew.
He was so handsome, even more than we remember John Kennedy. My research assistant had
his picture all around her wall for the last ten years, to the dismay of her boyfriend, hundreds of
pictures of him because he was that good looking.
[00:32:00]
He was disciplined. He was hard working. The model child. He was reverent. His mother's
favorite, as well as his father's. He had so completely internalized his father's ambition and drive,
the thing that happened that was so ironic was that when the father mellowed out and wanted to
call some of that ambition back, it was too late. It was too deeply engrained in this young child.
Even at Harvard, for example, when Joe was a senior he had hurt his leg very seriously and his
father didn't think he should go out for football to get his letter, even though the father had
always encouraged him to do that before. But even though he wrote letters to Joe saying, "It's not
worth a mangled knee; just play around and have a good time, but don't hurt your future," Joe
wrote back and he said, "I've got to go out for it, I've got to do this." And he did, and he hurt his
knee and he had to have an operation.
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[00:32:42]
Much more tragically, when Joe got into World War II, he was a pilot in England, he had
completed all the missions he needed to in order to come home. And he was ready to come
home. But he hadn't really done anything great, as he used to. Most of his life, he had always
been very special – in school, in camp, everywhere he went. But it just happened that the
missions he had done, they had done their job, but nothing had happened on them. So he kept
volunteering for more and more, almost as he were driven by some internal machine to do
something great. Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that John Kennedy, his younger
brother, had by then accomplished his great feats with the PT-109. Perhaps it was that he was in
love with a woman who was in England. But nevertheless, his father kept sending letters to him,
letter after letter, "Please, Joe, just come home. I love you. Don't tempt the fates, just come
home."
[00:33:29]
And yet, Joe kept volunteering. And a week before he was ready to come home, they needed a
volunteer for a very dangerous mission. They had discovered one of the places where Hitler was
supposedly launching the V2 rockets from, which were causing immense damage in London
because they were the first times they [used] unmanned rockets. And the only way they could get
at this bunker, which was a concrete bunker, absolutely fortified – it was in northern France –
was to fill a plane with explosives, guide the plane toward the bunker, have the pilot parachute
out, and then let the whole plane with all these explosives go into the bunker, hopefully
destroying it.
Well, Joe was in this plane. He volunteered to fly it. And before he got to the bunker, he was
supposed to parachute out. But something went terribly wrong with the wiring in the plane the
explosion took place while he was still in the plane. And not a single trace of his body was ever
found.
[00:34:18]
When I saw the letters that what happened is Joe had written his father right before he died
telling him, "I'm on another mission, Dad. But don't worry, it's nothing dangerous at all," that
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letter came to his father after he died. And Rose told me that the result was that when Joe opened
that letter and saw it, that's when he completely fell apart. One can imagine seeing a letter from
your child after you know the child is already dead.
[00:34:40]
The devastating impact on Joe, Sr., was so great that the scar never really healed. I found much
later a letter that he wrote to his friend, Walter Howey, in 1958, when Howey lost his wife.
Howey was a newspaper editor in Boston for the Herald. He was also the prototype for The
Front Page, so he was a real character, evidently, of an editor. But he'd been married to his wife
for 50 years and she died in 1958, and Howey was devastated by the death. And Joe wrote a
letter to him in which he said, "Walter, I know what you're feeling right now. My life has never
been the same since my son, Joe, died." – and this is now 14 years after that – There's a scar that
has never healed. Rose had her religion, so she got by. But I fear, Walter, you're more like me
than like Rose. So I know what you're going through, and I just want you to know that a friend
understands your pain." And Walter died a month later, and people said it was heartbreak out of
the loss of his wife.
Well, once you could understand that bond between Joe, Sr., and Joe, Jr., it gave a certain lie to
the stereotype that we've always heard, that he turned at once to Jack and said, "Okay, now take
your brother's place." In fact, obviously, that couldn't have been so. Indeed, the father and the
son circled around each other for years, in my judgment, before a new emotional bond was
forged between them.
[00:35:52]
As I said, Jack's childhood had been much more difficult than I had realized. For one thing, his
battle with ill health was a much more courageous battle than we ever knew. The Addison's
disease that was finally diagnosed in his late 20s had probably had an impact on his earlier life
because he kept having a series of mysterious illnesses all through school – ranging from
malaria, to jaundice, to hepatitis, to anemia. He was out of school continually. He was sloppy at
home, unlike Joe. He was disorganized, rebellious. He performed less well in school even though
I think he was smarter than his brother Joe. And worse, as far as Rose went, he was irreverent as
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well. There's this wonderful scene where she had all the kids kneel down to pray for a happy
death. And he was instead caught praying for a puppy dog. [laughter]
[00:36:37]
But I'm convinced that it was his way of surviving in that family structure. He became like the
Pied Piper to his sisters and brothers, always on the edge of almost breaking the rules, filled with
vitality, filled with humor and wit, with the self-deprecating humor that we all came later to love
so much. He found his source of self-confidence in the love of his brothers and sisters, his nurses
and governesses; and then, in larger and larger numbers, his kids in school, his PT-109 buddies.
He knew somehow when he was with people how to make them feel that that was all he cared
about, was them at that moment, that kind of intense vitality. And it was that charm that anyone
who knew him remembered all their lives.
But when his brother died, he suddenly had to rethink who he was. He could no longer be the
Pied Pieper, sort of on the edge of breaking the rules, not having to have this same serious
purpose in life. He did agree in 1946 to run for the Congress, but I think it took longer than that
before he realized that maybe politics was what he really wanted for himself, not just to salve his
father's wounds. I think he finally came, after years in politics, after his sister Kathleen died, after
his Addison's disease was diagnosed, after his Grandfather Fitzgerald died, to really understand
that there was a world out there that politics reached to. And that he could somehow do
something about that, that there was a world that could be conquered and cajoled, just as he had
done with all these smaller groups all of his life. There was a certain bond that I think he was
looking for in that larger world that was going to help to make up for some of that sadness of his
childhood.
[00:38:02]
The interesting thing Hemingway once said is that everyone is broken by life; but in the end,
some people are stronger in the broken places. I'm convinced that's the magic of John Fitzgerald
Kennedy that he was stronger because of the hurts, and he became a very strong adult man.
Perhaps it was true of all of us in the early 1960s, that because of whatever it was he projected,
we felt in that decade a little stronger and a little younger than we had before.
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[00:38:29]
For I think there was a sense in which the story of the three generations of Fitzgeralds and
Kennedys came full cycle in Kennedy's presidential campaign. For one thing, John Fitzgerald
Kennedy possessed a profound respect for the power of symbolism, the appeal of pageantry and
ritual. I think it had its antecedents in the days when the rituals of the Catholic Church and the
Saints' Day parades were a welcomed relief from the terrible struggle of daily life. And that
sense of occasion was an important source of John Kennedy's political strength.
[00:38:58]
And then too, there was the triumph of the first Catholic elected to the presidency, not simply a
personal victory for Joe Kennedy's sense of exclusion; much more importantly, a barrier broken
that would affect all sons of immigrants and all religious groups previously denied this highest
office in the land. It was in fact the culmination of the great immigrant wave of the late 19th and
early 20th century which had so fundamentally – and much for the better in my judgment –
restructured our nation.
[00:39:22]
There was a linkage as well in these generations in the presence at the inaugural of an old
Catholic Bible with a gold cross in the center. I discovered that this Bible had accompanied the
Fitzgeralds in its very journeys, from the narrow streets of the North End, to Concord when they
moved out there, to Dorchester. Then with the death of John Fitzgerald, it had gone to the attic of
his son, Thomas Fitzgerald. And evidently, right before the inauguration, the Kennedy family
were looking at pictures of Eisenhower's inauguration and they noticed a Bible, and they decided
"we need a family Bible." So they sent the Secret Service to find this Bible in the attic.
[00:39:55]
And in this same Bible that he used at the inauguration is recorded all the names of the first
generation of Fitzgeralds back in the 1850s and '60s – the 13 brothers and sisters of Fitzgerald.
Then his children, his six children. Then the nine children of Joe and Rose. Now, so many of
these children had died before they even had a chance to live; others had lived to see their
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dreams corroded. And yet there they were. They would all share in a moment of glory as that old
Bible was placed on the podium and played such a central role in the inauguration of the first
Catholic President in the country.
[00:40:30]
But then, as we all know, it lasted only 1000 days. And within five years, Jack's brother, Bobby,
would also be dead. And still, Rose could say that she was certain that if her children came back
and were to know that they were going to have these shortened lives, they would still choose to
be the same people because their lives had been so intense, so full and so vital. And that
understanding or that feeling gives her a serenity that I can only marvel at.
[00:40:55]
I can only say for me as a biographer that somehow living with this family's story for the past ten
years has heightened within me an awareness of the vulnerability of life that I might not
otherwise have had. The book starts in an age and a place in 1863 where life is extremely fragile
for everyone. In the slums of Boston, three out of ten infants died before the age of one. Parents
were expected to bury at least one child, if not more.
[00:41:21]
Now, the story should have been one of upward progress, such that as the Fitzgeralds and the
Kennedys grew in wealth and power, as medical technology advanced in the 20th century, the
later generations of Kennedys should have been able to expect that the proper order of things
would be preserved, that the parents would die before their children. And yet, as we all know, the
Kennedy story tells such a different tale. Of the nine children in that third generation, all of them
given the best schools, the best opportunities and the best healthcare, four would die
prematurely, beginning with Joe, Jr., at 29; with Kathleen at 28 in a plane crash; and of course
with Jack and Bobby at 46 and 43 by assassins' bullets.
[00:41:58]
I think the understanding of that story revealed to me a deeper appreciation of the arbitrariness of
things that I might otherwise have had. It made me appreciate even more the specialness of my
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own children's young lives. My two sons were born during the course of this book; they are now
aged ten and nine, their whole lives having been encompassed by this book, which is really why
it took so long. At night, when I would tuck them into bed, I think I could savor even more the
warmth of these moments, sobered as I've been by the recognition that however perfect life may
seem for me and for them right now– and they are such wonderful kids. And I remember the
other night when one of my kids turned to me right before he went to sleep and he said, "I love
my life." And yet, this story has to tell one that life will inevitably have in store, even for him, its
share of heartaches and disappointments.
[00:42:44]
But I realized as I was putting them to bed that no one could still take away the deep, deep
pleasure of what we had right then as they were feeling that sense of their love of life, no matter
what happened in the future. And I think for that understanding, as well as for the deepening
knowledge that writing history and biography is what I want to do for the rest of my life, I will
always be grateful to these two extraordinary families, the Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys.
Thank you very much. [applause]
Thank you. I would be more than glad to take questions on anything – Johnson, Kennedy. The
Red Sox I would have said, except that I'm so depressed. [laughter] Yes?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I have a question, so little attention being paid to Jackie Kennedy
previous to the inauguration. I was wondering why. And I'm also curious about her.
[00:44:03]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: Sure, I think I can answer that question. One of the most
difficult things about the book was where to end it, because it was getting so long, and I knew
that it was going to be hard enough for people to carry it. And I love to read books at night in
bed, and I knew if they couldn't hold it as they went to sleep at night, they'd really get upset,
because I knew how I felt. [laughter]
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So there is no question that after 1950 when John Kennedy makes the decision to really go into
politics on his own that then it shifts gears a little bit and becomes more a way of trying to
understand him and the heritage that made him and to get to the inauguration. Because I wanted
to end at the inauguration, rather than trying to offer new insight into the characters at that time,
who had been much more written about previous to this book than the earlier ones were. So I feel
that, too; it was just really a question that space had run out.
[00:44:48]
I can give you one story though about Mrs. Kennedy that really certainly touched me this
summer. We did have the occasion to go to Caroline's wedding in Hyannisport. And I understood
there as I saw her two children, Caroline and John, the extraordinary mother that she has been.
And I will always respect her for that.
[00:45:06]
What happened was that at the bridal dinner the night before the dinner, John Kennedy, Jr., gave
a toast. And he's an extraordinary kid. Both those kids have a poise and a sense of distance that is
different; they are set apart from all the other cousins. And I think she's the one that did that. He
stood up and he talked about the fact that he was so worried about meeting Ed's, Caroline's
husband-to-be, because he'd been so close to Caroline all his life. And if he didn't like Ed, what
was it going to be like?
[00:45:38]
But he said the first time Ed came for dinner, he was so cute, he said he remembered looking– he
dropped his napkin and he looked under the table and she was holding hands with him. And he
thought, "Oh, my God, this is really serious. I've got to make a good impression." [laughter] And
he said he was so pleased that, as the years when by, he and Ed had become so close that Ed had
actually asked him to be his best man at the wedding. And so he said, "For all these years, it's
just been the three of us – Mommy, Caroline and I. And now there's a fourth."
[00:46:02]
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And I'll tell you, when I heard him say that and saw the emotion in his voice and in his whole
manner toward Caroline, after this I said to Mrs. Kennedy, I said, "You've got to be incredibly
proud about the bond you've created between those two children of yours." And she looked at me
and she just straight out said, "Do you know that being a mother is the most important thing I've
ever done in my life. Thank you very much."
[00:46:22]
I'll tell you, that part of her, whatever else one thinks about the photographers, the clothes, the
wealth, the money, I will always respect her for that. And I think she's been an extraordinary
mother.
Anything else? Sure, right here.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I had that same question about Senator Kennedy, Ted Kennedy. I
was hungry in the book to know about him, and I felt the saddest of the children somehow as I
read the book that he kind of was an also-ran in that family of so many achieving kids. And now,
of course, we have such respect, from me anyway, and from much of the state. But there was a
lot about the kids, other of the children that I didn't get, but particularly about him.
[00:47:07]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: I had to make a decision. In fact, on that score, there was
another reason for that decision. I did concentrate in the third generation on what I called the
Golden Trio – as you know, Jack, Joe, Jr., and Kathleen, and to some extent Rosemary. And part
of it was space, but part of it was also that over these last years, through my husband, we have
gotten to know Senator Kennedy in a social way. I've gotten to know Jackie, I've gotten to know
Eunice and Pat and some of the other people. And as an historian, the hardest thing to sort out
was how am I going to keep my objectivity and knowing these people at the same time?
[00:47:43]
So it was almost a conscious decision that, except for Rose, who is still alive, and who I really
interviewed as an historian not as a friend, I was going to write only about the people who were
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
dead and whom I really hadn't known so that I could keep an objectivity stronger than I could
otherwise. If I started writing at length about Teddy or Eunice, I was afraid I would mix in what I
knew as a social friend of theirs versus what I had learned as an historian.
So I, too, there were times when I wished I could have taken it further. But in that case, I was
afraid that the whole objectivity that I needed to bring to the rest of the book would be hurt if I
kept sliding over that line.
[00:48:19]
But your observation is such an interesting one because I do think that it's an extraordinary feat
that Teddy was available to develop his own sense of confidence because he did lead a different
life from the rest of those kids. Mostly because he was so much younger, by the time he came
back from England when his father's ambassadorship had been so disastrous, there was a cloud
on the family that hadn't been there before because his father's career had reached its limit then.
And there was always a sadness, I think, as a result, in Joe Kennedy because he knew he had
somehow blown it at some level.
And at that time, they gave up the home in Bronxville. There was only Palm Beach and
Hyannisport. Teddy was sent off to boarding school at age eight. And there wasn't that same
sense of the family moving with the father upward the way the other kids had. And at the same
time, he was such a young boy; he was only 12 when Joe, Jr., died, he was only 16 when
Kathleen died. So his childhood was already clouded by the tragedies of the family. Whereas, the
older kids had only the upward movement and their tragedies came much later when they were
already formed. So for him to have remained confident at some levels and cheerful at other
levels was an even greater feat than it was for these older kids in a lot of ways, I think.
Yes, over here?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: A question about personal experience. You mentioned something
about learning. You wrote the LBJ book. Is there something that you've learned now – of course,
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
you had a very strong bond with LBJ – that you would have changed in your book, your
perspectives about Lyndon Baines Johnson?
[00:49:49]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: That's a really good question. It's interesting, we were just
down in Washington these last couple days. There's this great society that's been created called
the Judson Welliver Society. Judson Welliver was President Harding's first speechwriter and
probably the first known presidential speechwriter. So William Safire set up an organization of
all speechwriters to honor this man, Judson Welliver. Since Harding never said very much, we
presume that the speechwriter was one of the greatest of all times. [laughter]
[00:50:14]
Anyway, it was really incredible because all the people were there – we've now met twice – from
all of Reagan's speechwriters back through Clark Clifford with Truman. And the interesting
things is that as this group – from Truman, to Eisenhower, to Nixon, to Reagan's people sit
together – Lyndon Johnson is still the most interesting person that all these insiders wanted to
talk about. And I guess the one thing that I've learned continually as time went on about Lyndon
Johnson is to feel even sadder that his presidency was destroyed by the war in Vietnam. Because
I really do think he was a man who cared immensely about civil rights, about poverty, about
becoming an even greater domestic president than Franklin Roosevelt was.
[00:50:55]
And as all these people sat around and kept telling stories, it was always coming back to Lyndon
Johnson stories. Not Eisenhower stories, not Roosevelt stories, not– it was so incredibly
interesting to see this happen. He was such a large figure, such a great storyteller. And if only the
American public could have known that vitality. He so hid it in that ridiculous stance he put on
when he spoke on television with his glasses and his podium and his hair slicked back. He was
always so afraid he was going to swear or say something terrible, which is what he did in his
ordinary life, that he kept himself straitjacketed in front of the—but as a result, we never knew
him as a person.
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
[00:51:30]
So I guess if I were writing the book now, I would just want to make sure that I was able to see
him at the last part of his life. I would just want to make sure that I had fully been able to portray
him in the glory part of his life so that that largeness of the figure really stood out. But I think
historians are going to do that with him. I do think he'll emerge back as time goes by. I hope so,
for his sake.
Yes?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: My question had to do with mainly, you touched on objectivity and
conflict of interest. Now, as it turns out, [off mic] Rose Kennedy was very forthright about the
situation between Joe Kennedy and Gloria Swanson. But suppose you had come across, in doing
the research, something that might have been very painful to her or to other members of the
family? Would there have been a conflict of interest between you as a friend and you as an
historian? And how would you have resolved that?
[00:52:25]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: It's a very question. And I did have to do that at times because
there were things in the papers that I knew if I were one of them writing it, I just wouldn't have
used it. I would have pretended it didn't exist. For example, there was a letter that Joe, Jr., wrote
when he went to Germany in 1934 back to his father and he talked about how wonderful it was
to see the pageantry and the life and the vitality under Hitler, and it was too bad that Hitler had to
be doing what he was doing to the Jews, but maybe they had to do something to get that sense of
pride back. It was a very sad letter for me to read as a human being, much less as an historian.
[00:53:02]
And obviously, if I were a member of the family, you would make sure to destroy that letter. But
as an historian, it seemed to me it was an important understanding, not simply of young Joe, Jr. –
he was only 18 years old and a lot of people misunderstood what was going on – but the fact that
his father never wrote him back and tried to correct. It was a very deeply prejudiced letter in a lot
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
of ways – was something that I had to understand because Joe's ambassadorship had a lot of
rumors about it of anti-Semitism, and I had to deal with that whole question.
[00:53:30]
So that what I had to do when I'd come upon things like that, I was afraid if I started making
decisions that said, No, I'm not going to use this because the family will be upset, eventually you
decide it once, you decide it twice, you decide it 20 times, and the whole integrity of your book
would be lost. So I had to take the chance that– I had to use an historian's standard when I found
these things – is this important? There'd be some things you'd find that might be damaging, but
they don't do anything at all to tell the larger story. And even if you didn't know the family, that's
the stupid kind of stuff to use. As an historian, it seems to me, you should use things that reveal
character or history or texture or something. And that's the standard I try to use.
[00:54:09]
But it still wasn't easy. And there were times when I wished I were writing about George
Washington, to tell you the truth. [laughter] And when I think about what to do next, that's the
thing. You get caught between the great pleasures that come from being able to interview live
people and bring that to bear on your research, and then, on the other hand, you're just walking
into land mines when you write about families about whom there's such emotions. And your
book can't fully be taken on its own terms.
[00:54:30]
I've been extremely fortunate. I've been really lucky that the reviews have almost universally
seen it as a work of history. But beforehand, I was so worried that people's feelings about the
Kennedys would intrude into the reviews, and if they liked them or didn't like them, they'd look
at the book that way. And that's when I started dreaming about doing George Washington.
[laughter]
Any other questions? Yes?
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
AUDIENCE QUESTION: [off mic] I know it was mentioned that you're doing a lot of
lecturing and touring around the United States and the world. What do you see as your next
book? Do you have some ideas?
[00:55:09]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: The only thing I'd know if I could is I'd like it to be a woman.
Even though Rose Kennedy is a major figure in this book– I mean, Lyndon Johnson was so
dominant in the other book, and he was so much of a man, obviously, and these characters were
predominantly male, that I'd love to try and find, just as a woman, I'd like to try and understand a
woman who's– but I haven't come up with it yet. And I also know I want it to have a big mix of
history in it because, as I said, I really love– not a lot of people probably are as crazy to love
sitting in old libraries going through documents, but when you love it, it's like an obsession. My
family thought I was crazy half the time when I'd come back and say, "Look what happened in
1922!" But knowing that you love that. I know it'll be set back so I can do documents from the
past.
[00:55:50]
But I think it's just going to take a little while for the emotion of letting go of this one to go away
before I can really concentrate. And I've tried; I've come up with ideas and then the next morning
they don't seem as good as they did the day before. So nothing really has happened yet.
Yes, there was a question right–
AUDIENCE QUESTION: [off mic] Regarding Rosemary Kennedy, did you have a chance to
meet with her and talk about some of the episodes in her life?
[00:56:19]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: You mean on the retarded daughter Rosemary? No, I did not.
She has been almost, most of the time, at a convent in Wisconsin, St. Coletta's in Jefferson,
Wisconsin. And as far as I understand it, she can barely talk now and hasn't been able to since.
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
She can make herself understood, I think, by the members of the family, but, no, I've never even
seen her.
Any other questions? Yes?
AUDIENCE QUESTION: [off mic]–if you had to meet Ted Sorensen. I didn't see his name.
[00:56:53]
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: No. In fact, I sat next to him at dinner the other night and we
were talking about that. He's, of course, one of the speechwriters that was at this Judson Welliver
Society. Again, it comes back to the same question that the first person asked. Once I reached
that period from 1950, I almost was going to end the book there because I really found my
emotional sense that the book was over once John Kennedy became a politician in his own right,
in my judgment. But in order to carry the larger theme out, of the inauguration ending the
family's immigrant struggle, I had to get to the inauguration.
[00:57:28]
But if I had started doing original interviewing and research on that last ten years, it couldn't
have been in one volume. So as I say, instead I deliberately say when I get to 1950 that the last
ten years are going to be told from a different kind of narrative point of view. They're more an
attempt to use everything that's gone before to understand John Kennedy. And that meant that
there's not new incidents or new materials; it's more an analysis in the last couple chapters of the
book.
[00:57:54]
There are times when I wish I'd even ended it back in 1950 and then just skipped to the
inauguration because I, too, feel that sense of its not being as full as it could. But I think for
people who don't know as much as most of you know, they wanted some sense of the events that
got from '50 to '60, or they would have felt a sense of incompletion. But he's an intelligent man
and I'm sure he would have known a lot to share.
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
AUDIENCE QUESTION: [off mic] What does the future hold for the fourth generation of
Kennedys?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, there's certainly a lot of them out there. [laughter] It's
interesting. There's no question that two things have gone through the generations with this
family, from all three of mine and into the fourth. One is the sense that public life is a value that
is put at the apex of the values. In a lot of other families it might be medicine or it might be
something else, but this family seems to think that that value has a higher value than anything
else. And for those kids who are temperamentally suited for politics, I think there's a great
likelihood they're going to enter into it. I'm concerned only for those kids who aren't
temperamentally suited, that they might feel that this is the only important thing to do and they're
going to get into it and not be happy in it. Because politics is only for a certain kind of character,
in my judgment.
[00:59:12]
But nevertheless, given that there's so many of them out there, and this value has gone through to
the fourth generation, I have a feeling that the Boston Globe was right in a cartoon that it had
after Joe was elected. It had a cartoon projecting 2000 in the House of Representatives in which
the Speaker was getting all mixed up as he got to the Ks – "Mr. Kennedy, Ms Kennedy, Mr.
Kennedy." [laughter]
[00:59:33]
I would predict that there'll be five or six of them that will enter public life in the next decade,
and that at least half of them will probably make it. The combination of their having the
background, their having the money to be able to run, not having to do other things to be able to
do that, and having the capacity. And then the second thing that goes through this family
structure which gives them an enormous advantage and I think is part of the magic of why we
keep coming back to the Kennedy story, is that even now the bonds of that family still stay
strong. When one of them runs, they have a circle of the other kids around.
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
When Joe was running in the 8th District, his sister Kerry did his field organizing and his brother
Michael did his fundraising, and his brother Chris as doing the organizing in Belmont. It wasn't
just that these people came on election night, as the family always does, to look like there's a
family there, but they were really part of that campaign from the first and earliest day. Kathleen,
I gather, in Maryland had a similar grouping of other sisters and brothers who were helping her
out.
[01:00:29]
And so long as the American public sees that connection of these kids to one another and the
families bondedness, I think in an age of such scattered family lives that so many of us lead with
mobility and kids going from one coast to another and not seeing grandparents, divorces, there is
that sense that something holds this family together, even though they, too, have been wracked
by some of the modern values; there's no question about that.
And I suppose it's that combination of the view that this family is so close to itself and so close
to each other, and yet puts themselves out for public values and for public office, and at the same
time has that whole history of tragedies behind it, that combination just gives us a fascination
that I think is going to be hard for a long time to end.
[01:01:14]
One last thing is, I remember in 1948, Lord Beaverbrook wrote a letter to Joe Kennedy – now,
by this time Jack was in the Congress, but nothing else had really happened – in which he
predicted them that the Kennedy family would one day rival the Adams family. I think that it's
very likely, given this continuing bondedness of the kids, given that they've come through a lot
of their tough times, from it can seem, and matured away from the difficulties they had with the
drugs and the deaths of their parents that we are going to see this family around for a long time to
come. And I think they deserve our respect, our caring.
[01:01:48]
The most touching moment for me, I think, at end of the New York Times review of my book,
Christopher Lehmann-Haupt said something that put it so well. He said, "After you read this
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�MS113.0016 Transcript
whole story, in the end, while we envy them, while we respect them, while we admire them, we
probably all feel a great sense of relief that we have not been gifted with their radiant gifts and
their need to continually reach out and touch the sun." And I think that's the way I feel as well.
Thank you very much. [applause]
[Concludes with an brief announcement explaining the logistics for a post-forum reception.]
END OF RECORDING
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36
�
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
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The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
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Doris Kearns Goodwin's speech, "The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys : an American saga" at the Ford Hall Forum [audio recording and transcript]
Date
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28 July 1988
Description
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From the John F. Kennedy Library in Boston, best-selling biographer Doris Kearns Goodwin, discusses her book,"The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys : an American saga." Goodwin goes behind the lace curtains of two families which gave rise to Camelot in America -- the Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys.
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Ford Hall Forum
Goodwin, Doris Kearns
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Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0016
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Fitzgerald Family
Kennedy Family
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Copyright Ford Hall Forum. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Ford Hall Forum
Politics and government
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https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/3208b6d7d32c4d76a6548a08391a2cca.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=HHsJK2fjG-sHeA6v2LDx6yNRo7wuyBVE2%7EO2pW4oqdjAZvQ%7E%7EvzlwozHUip1sGZnhEwAhPa1KYB%7ElYg3jzbH%7EfUTj9prETbbxAm7q7YeM9INbVSFQEpl%7EtFsu297BtzQaYQPtif1Gvb6b2gpZ%7EzjlBeflNA0n-Mloyi7IH25BKucu3NZnraSzn35LZOYHmEIybP%7EIOGYBL-3Dr64o9idZ1JgZrXVttUtCyR0ngRoMv3so3JQ0szWFFygV9LKZgCE2JWYACtj4PW6bPO0JLn6ii3TOlODJh6MhdkAhfxG9U0vR23neKzjkzoC1Yv-w2eF1Q6XsQpnLUyo%7ERJWGHmzAQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
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Ford Hall Forum: Transcript of MLK Forum
Moakley Archive and Institute
www.suffolk.edu/moakley
Title: Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s 1963 speech, "The Future of Desegregation,"
delivered at the Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Date: March 24, 1963
Speakers: Martin Luther King, Jr.
Item Information: Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s 1963 speech at the Ford Hall Forum,
"The Future of Desegregation," at the Ford Hall Forum. Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013
(MS113.3.1, item 0008) Moakley Archive, Suffolk University, Boston, MA.
Digital Versions: audio recording and transcript available at http://moakleyarchive.omeka.net
Copyright Information: Copyright © 1963 Ford Hall Forum.
Recording Summary:
Three weeks before he was jailed for leading peaceful protesters in Birmingham, Alabama, Dr.
King addressed the Ford Hall Forum in Boston on March 24 1963. His address, "The Future of
Desegregation," coincided with the centennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. Dr. King
called for renewed Federal efforts at desegregation, while noting that "the law cannot change the
heart, but it can restrain the heartless." The forum was rebroadcast as part of the New American
Gazette program and includes an introduction by Barbara Jordan.
�MS113.0008 Transcript
Transcript Begins
ANNOUCER: From Boston, the Ford Hall Forum presents the New American Gazette with
your host Barbara Jordan.
BARBARA JORDAN: This week the New American Gazette honors the birthday of Reverend
Martin Luther King with a rebroadcast of Dr. King’s address to the Ford Hall Forum in Boston
on March 24, 1963. Dr. King’s topic that day, “Desegregation and the Future,” reminds us of the
segregated world of 1963. It was a world in which blacks and whites couldn’t site at the same
lunch counters, use the same facilities, or ride side-by side in the front of the bus. 1963 was a
time that Dr. King called the “Border of the Promised Land of Desegregation.” On the centennial
of the Emancipation Proclamation, Dr. King called for a second Emancipation Proclamation to
end discrimination in housing and employment. Three weeks following this address, Dr. King
would be jailed in Birmingham, Alabama for leading a march protesting city-wide segregation in
stores and restaurants. Other peaceful Birmingham protesters met with police attack dogs and
firehoses which the nation witnessed on national television. Preaching reconciliation as the
highest goal of non-violence and a Christian love ethic, Dr. King’s message of non-violence was
repeated three months later in his most famous address on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial.
Following the March on Washington, President Kennedy delivered a civil rights bill to Congress
outlawing segregation in all interstate public buildings, taking steps to initiate school integration,
and continuing a provision ensuring the right to vote. One year later in 1964, President Lyndon
Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. Reminding the Ford Hall Forum audience that segregation
is a form of slavery, Dr. King conducts a broad sweep of race relations through these periods of
American history, then sets an agenda for social and economic justice for legislators, civil rights
leaders, and all Americans to undertake. How close have we come to eliminate the social,
economic, and employment injustices that Dr. King vividly brought to mind? Recalling Martin
Luther King’s vision of desegregation and the future, it’s time to ask, what has become of that
vision of justice and equality?
�MS113.0008 Transcript
REV. DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.: As we look over the broad sweep of race
relations in the United States, we notice three distinct periods. The second period represents
growth and progress over the first period and the third period represents growth and
progress over the second period. And it is interesting to notice that, in each period, there
finally came a decision from the Supreme Court of our nation to give legal and
constitutional validity for the dominant thought patterns of that particular period.
The first period was an era of slavery. This period had its beginning in 1690 when the first
Negro slaves landed on the shores of this nation. And it extended through 1862 when
Abraham Lincoln signed the immortal document known as the Emancipation Proclamation.
And throughout the period of slavery, the Negro was treated in a very inhuman fashion. He
was a thing to be used, not a person to be respected. He was merely a depersonalized cog in
a vast plantation machine. And finally in 1857, toward the end of that period, the supreme
court of the nation rendered a decision known as the Dred Scott decision which gave legal
and constitution validity to the whole system of slavery. This decision said, in substance, that
the Negro is not a citizen of the United States. He is merely property subject to the dictates
of his owner. It went on to say that the Negro has no rights that the white man is bound to
respect.
The second period had its beginning in 1863 and extended to 1954. We may refer to this as
the period of restricted emancipation. Now, in a real sense, it was an improvement over the
first period because it at least freed the Negro from the bondage of physical slavery. But it
was not at all the best period because it did not accept the Negro as a person. And, therefore,
it was very easy for the ethos of segregation to emerge as the dominate practice and theory
of this particular period. And in 1896, the Supreme Court of the United States rendered a
decision known as the Plessy v. Ferguson decision, which established the doctrine of
"separate but equal" as the law of the land. And it was this decision that gave legal and
constitutional validity to the dominant thought patterns of the second period in race relations.
But we all know what happened as a result of this period. There was always a strict
enforcement of the separate, without the slightest intention to abide by the equal. The Negro
�MS113.0008 Transcript
ended up being plunged into the abyss of exploitation where he experienced the bleakness of
nagging injustice. So something had to happen to bring about another period.
Things began to happen in the nation and in the world. And the rolling tide of world opinion
had its influence. The industrialization of the South and the concomitant urbanization had its
influence. And then something happened to the Negro. Living with slavery for many years,
many Negroes came to feel that perhaps they were inferior and perhaps they were less than
human. But then something happened to cause the Negro to reevaluate himself.
Circumstances made it possible and necessary for him to travel more—the coming of the
automobile, the upheavals of two World Wars, the Great Depression. And so his rural
plantations background gradually gave way to urban industrial life. And even his economic
life was rising through the growth of industry, the development of organized labor, expanded
educational opportunities. And even his cultural life was gradually rising through the steady
decline of crippling illiteracy. All of these forces conjoined to cause the Negro to take a new
look at himself. Negro masses all over began to reevaluate themselves. And the Negro came
to feel that he was somebody. His religion revealed to him that God loves all of his children
and that all men are made in his image; that the basic thing about a man is not his specificity,
but his fundamentum, not the texture of his hair, or the color of his skin, but his eternal
dignity and worth. And so with this a new Negro came into being with a new sense of
dignity and a new sense of self respect, and a new determination to struggle, to sacrifice in
order to be free. And with all these forces working together we saw the second period
gradually pass away.
And so today we see emerging the third period in race relations. We may refer to this as the
period of Constructive Desegregation. It had its beginning in 1954, on May 1st when the
Supreme Court rendered a decision which gave legal and constitutional validity to the
dominant thought patterns of this particular period. That decision said, in substance, that the
old Plessy doctrine must go, that separate facilities are inherently unequal, that to segregate a
child on the basis of his race is to deny that child equal protection of the law. As a result of
this decision, we have seen many developments, and we have seen many changes. To put it
figuratively in Biblical language, we have broken loose from the Egypt of slavery and we
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have moved through the wilderness of segregation, and now we stand on the border of the
promised land of desegregation. And this is where we are at this particular moment in the
period of desegregation: seeking to move ahead finally toward a truly integrated society.
The great challenge facing America at this hour is to work passionately and unrelentingly to
bring the ideals and principles of this third period into full realization. Certainly we don't
have long to do it. And I know there are those people who are constantly saying to those in
the civil rights struggle "Slow up for a while. You're pushing things too fast. Cool off." They
are saying "adopt a policy of moderation." Well, if moderation means moving on towards
the goal of justice with wise restraint and calm reasonableness, then moderation is a great
virtue which all men of good will must seek to achieve during this tense period of transition.
But if moderation means slowing up in the move for freedom and capitulating to the
undemocratic practices of the guardians of a deadening status quo, then moderation is a
tragic vice, which all men of good will must condemn. We can't afford to slow up. We have
our self-respect to maintain, but more than that, we love democracy too much, and we love
the American way of life too much, to slow up.
As you know there are approximately 3 billion people living in our world and the vast
majority of these people live in Asia and in Africa. For years they were dominated
politically, exploited economically, segregated and humiliated by some foreign power. But
today they are gaining independence. Millions and millions and millions of the former
colonial subjects are gaining independence. Can remember when we first went to Africa
back in 1957. We were happy about the fact that now independence was starting south of the
Sahara; now there were eight independent countries in Africa. But since that times more than
25 new independent countries have come into being in just a few years. Twenty-five or thirty
years ago there were only three independent countries in Africa. So Prime Minister
MacMillan was right when he said, "the wind of change was blowing in Africa." It is
blowing all over the world. As these former colonial subjects gain their independence, their
leaders are saying in no uncertain terms that racism and colonialism must go. They are
making it clear that they would not respect any nation that will subject its citizenry on the
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basis of race or color. And so in a real sense, the hour is late. The clock of destiny is ticking
out and we must act now before it is too late.
And I almost hasten to say that this isn't the only reason that we must seek to solve this
problem in America. We must not seek to solve the racial problem merely to appeal to Asian
and African peoples. We must not seek to solve this problem to meet the Communist
challenge as important as that happens to be. But, in the final analysis, racial discrimination
must be uprooted from American society because it is morally wrong. In the final analysis
of this problem must be solved because racial discrimination stands against all the noble
precepts of our Judo-Christian heritage. Segregation is wrong because it substitutes an "I-it"
relationship for the "I-Thou" relationship, and relegates persons to the status of things. And
so we must seek to solve this problem not merely because it is diplomatically expedient, but
because it is morally compelling. This is the great challenge of the hour.
Now what must we do and what must be done in the future to make desegregation a reality,
and then to move on toward a truly integrated society? And I say that because that is the
difference between desegregation and integration: desegregation is eliminative and,
therefore, has negative aspects. Segregation is prohibitive in that it prohibits individuals
from using certain facilities. Legal barriers stand before them. Desegregation eliminates
these barriers. Integration is creative in that it deals with attitudes; it is mutual acceptance. It
is genuine interpersonal and inter-group relations. So that while desegregation is a necessary
step that we must think of and deal with, we must always remember that the ultimate goal is
a truly integrated society. Now what must be done if this is to be a reality?
First, I would like the mention the need for forthright leadership from the federal
government. The government must use all of its constitutional authority to enforce the law
and to make justice a reality. And we must honestly confess that this has not always been
done. If we look back over the last ten years, we can see that the only consistent forthright
leadership has come from the judicial branch of the federal government. The judicial or
rather the legislative and executive branches have not always been forthright, have not
always been determined, and certainly have not always been consistent. But if this problem
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is to be solved, there must be a concerted effort on the part of all the branches of the federal
government. It must rise above the timid stage. It must rise above the compromising stage,
and move on toward that stage of making great moral decisions, which will certainly change
our nation in this period of transition.
Now if the government is to do its job, it must get rid of two myths that tend to get around
and are circulated all around the nation. One is what I often refer to as the "myth of time."
Now there are those who argue that the federal government cannot do anything about this
problem because only time can solve the problem. They go on to say that if we would just
be patient and nice and pray, a hundred or two hundred years from now the problem will
work itself out. Well, the only answer that we can give to the myth of time, to those who
believe in this myth,is that time is neutral. It can be used either constructively or
destructively, and at points I think the people of ill will have used time much more
effectively than the people of good will. And it may well be that we will have to repent in
this generation, not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the
appalling silence of the good people. Somewhere we must come to see that human progress
never rolls in on the wheels of inevitability, it comes through the tireless efforts and
persistent work of the dedicated individuals, who are willing to be co-workers with God.
And without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of primitive forces of social
stagnation and irrational emotionalism. And so it is necessary to see that we must help time
and to realize that the time is always right to do right.
The other myth that is often circulated and gets back to the government is that idea that
legislation can't solve the problem of racial injustice. We have heard this idea that morality
cannot be legislated, that this problem must be solved by changing attitudes. So this must be
done through education and it must be done through religion. Legislation can do nothing
about it. Well, there is an element of truth in this. Certainly education and religion will have
a great role to play in changing attitudes. It may be true that morality cannot be legislated,
but behavior can be regulated. It may be true that the law cannot change the heart, but it can
restrain the heartless. It may be true that the law can't make a man love me, but it can keep
him from lynching me and I think that's pretty important also. In other words—(applause)—
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and so this is what we must see, that it will take education and religion to change bad internal
attitudes, but we need legislation to control the external effects of those bad internal attitudes.
And so that is the need for strong civil rights legislation now, in this session of congress.
And it is significant that a few days ago, President Kennedy went on record for the first time
since he has been in office calling for civil rights legislation, mainly in the area of voter
registration. And I think if the proposals set forth are accepted and passed by Congress,
many of the problems that we now face in the South in seeking to get Negroes registered
and voting will be solved. And there is a great deal here that will change the political
structure of the South and liberalize the political climate, and so there is a great deal that
must be done through legislation. There is a need for executive orders to continue.
Fortunately President Kennedy has signed two executive orders. One in employment
making it clear that there is not to be any discrimination in employment where government
contracts are involved and in federal agencies. Another executive order in the realm of
housing; this is a good beginning. Certainly this executive order is not strong enough. It
could be much more forthright and it could deal with the enormity of the problem in a much
more depthful manner, but at least it is a start. And this is why I have urged that President
Kennedy to sign what I have called "the Second Emancipation Proclamation." For I think the
time has come for such an order to be issued.
A hundred years ago Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation which freed
the Negro from the bondage of physical slavery. But one hundred years later the Negro is
still in slavery. The Negro still isn't free, North or South. And it is not too much to ask one
hundred years after the first Emancipation Proclamation for a Second Emancipation
Proclamation to make freedom a reality. For in a real sense segregation is a form of slavery
covered up with certain niceties of complexity. And I believe that such an executive order
would go a long, long way to set forth a sound national policy. And it would be a great
beacon light of hope to millions of disinherited people all over this nation, and all over the
world, so the federal government has a great role to play.
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I would like to mention the need for forthright leadership from the moderates of the white
South. And I would not give you the impression tonight that there are not white persons of
good will in the South. I would leave you with the idea and the fact that there are hundreds
and thousands and, I believe, millions of white people of good will in the South. But they are
silent today, and they have been silent for years because they are afraid: afraid of social,
political, and economic reprisals. God grant that something will happen, so that these persons
will rise up and take over the leadership in this tense period of transition and somehow open
channels of communication. For I am convinced that men hate each other because they fear
each other. They fear each other because they don't know each other. And they don't know
each other because they fail to communicate with each other. And they fail to communicate
with each other because they are separated from each other.
And one of the great tragedies of our time, one of the great tragedies of the South, is that in
all too many situations we are still seeking to live in monologue rather than dialogue. There
is a need for the white persons of good will to stand up in the South. We look back over the
last few months and think about the ugly and tragic things that took place in Oxford,
Mississippi, and that continue to take place in that state. One thing that we will always have
to face and remember is that Governor Barnett was able to do what he did because of the
breakdown in the power structure. And that he felt that he had the approval of the political,
the economic, and the ecclesiastical power structure. Nobody really took a stand against his
irresponsible action. Now, certainly somebody in Mississippi disagreed with that: somebody
in Mississippi disagreed with the methods and the actions and the words of Governor
Barnett. But they failed to stand up. And so there is a great need if this problem is to be
solved for forthright action and courageous action and commitment on the part of the
moderate and the white South.
Let me also mention the need for a forthright leadership and commitment on the part of
white persons of good will in the North. This is all important, for this problem is not a
sectional problem. No area of our country can boast of clean hands in the area of
brotherhood, and the estrangement of the races in the North can be as devastating as the
segregation of the races in the South. For deception can be much more frustrating that
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outright rejection; somehow indifference can be much more embittering than outright
hostility. And this is what it is necessary for everyone in the North to see. It is one thing for a
white person of good will in the North to rise up with righteous indignation when a bus is
burned in Aniston, Alabama with freedom riders or when a church is burned in Sassa,
Georgia where Negroes are seeking to learn how to register and vote, or when a courageous
James Meredith confronts a howling and jeering mob when he seeks to go to the University
of Mississippi. But it is just as necessary and important for white persons of good will in the
North to rise up with righteous indignation when a Negro cannot live in their community or
their neighborhood because of certain restrictions and agreements, or when a Negro cannot
get a job in their firm, or when a Negro cannot join a particular professional society,
academic society, or fraternity or sorority. In other words, there must be an inner
commitment on the part of the people all over this nation.
Now in the North, the twin evils of housing and employment discrimination stand out as
they do all over this country. These must be grappled with in a very significant and
determined manner. Unemployment is growing every day, and the Negro is the greatest
victim. He constitutes ten percent of the population, but 44% of the unemployed. And the
problem is being augmented even more today because of the force known as automation.
The Negro has been limited to unskilled and semi-skilled labor because of discrimination,
denied apprenticeship training. And now these are the jobs which are passing away. Now,
something must be done in order to grapple with this problem and make employment
opportunities equal and real for all people. For the Negro is still the last hired and first fired
all over the United States. And he is still at the bottom of the economic ladder. Forty-two
percent of the Negro families in America earn less than $2,000 a year, while just 17% of the
white families earn less $2,000 a year. Twenty percent of the Negro families in America
earn less than $1,000 a year, while less than five percent of the white families earn less than
$1,000 a year. Eighty-eight percent of the Negro families of America still earn less than
$5,000 a year, while just 58% of the white families earn less than $5,000 a year.
Now this problem of economic injustice must be solved if America is to be a great nation.
For you can see the problems here. If one does not have economic security·, he cannot
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adequately educate his children, he cannot have adequate housing conditions, he cannot
have adequate health conditions. And it is very easy for one to cry out that the Negro is a
criminal or that his standards are lagging. If there are lagging standards in the Negro
community, they lag because of segregation and discrimination. Poverty, ignorance,
economic deprivation, [and] social isolation breed crime whatever the racial group may be.
And it is a tortuous logic to use the tragic results of segregation as an argument for the
continuation of it. It is necessary to go to the source, to go to the root of the problem, and so
there is need for work all over the nation to deal with the problem of employment
discrimination and the problem of housing discrimination. For as long as there is residential
discrimination, there will be segregation in the public schools, segregation in recreational
facilities, segregation in hospitals, [and] segregation in churches. And this is why de facto
segregation in the North can be as crippling as de jure segregation in the South. And this
must be seen and met with vigor and determination.
I would also like to mention the need for leadership from organized religion. And I must say,
and honestly admit, that in this area the church has not done its job. It is one of the shameful
facts that we must face that in the midst of injustices all around, the church has too often
stood silently by, mouthing pious irrelevancies and sanctimonious trivialities. In the midst of
the tragic injustices of our days, the church has too often remained silently behind the safe
security of stained glass windows and so often Christians have had a high-blood pressure of
creeds and anemia of deeds. And for this reason eleven o'clock on Sunday morning, when
millions of people stand over this nation to sing In Christ There is No East or West, we find
ourselves in the most segregated hour of America. This is tragic indeed. And the most
segregated school of the week is the Sunday school.
(applause.)
Now if something isn't done about that, the church will lose its redemptive power, and
certainly its power to serve as a moral guardian of the community. If it is to have a relevant
voice, and to stand up creatively with power and spiritual strength during these days, it must
take a stand on this issue. It is good that some have become conscious of this, and I am
encouraged because more and more church bodies are taking a stand, even in the most
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difficult communities of the South. They are all too few, but they are growing, and I'm
convinced as they continue to grow the transition from a segregated to desegregated society
and finally an integrated one will be much, much smoother. And the church will be not
merely a taillight, but it will be a headlight, leading men and women on in this day and in
this age.
But after saying all of this, I must say that if this problem is to be solved—if we are to have
truly desegregated society, if we are to break down the barriers—the Negro himself must
stand up with courage and determination and a willingness to sacrifice and even suffer. He
must not stand idly by waiting for somebody else to do something for him. But he must
work for his own freedom, in this day and at this time. And there are many areas in which
we must work. Certainly we must continue to work for meaningful legislation, as I
mentioned a few minutes ago. We must continue to work through the courts; many things
have been done through the courts. I mentioned the Supreme Court's decision of 1954, and
this was a decision handed down by the highest court of the land. Many things have been
done through the Supreme Court and through federal district courts, and through Federal
Courts of Appeal. And so we must continue to work through the courts to clarify the law.
This is very important. We must continue to work to double the number of Negro registered
voters, North and South. For as I said earlier I am convinced that, if we can increase the
number of Negro registered voters, we will be able to liberalize the political climate of the
South. There are still approximately 10 million, more than 10 million, Negroes in the South.
Out of this number, almost 6 million are eligible to vote at least they are of voting age. Yet
only about a million, 500 thousand are registered to vote. You can see that is a big job ahead.
And wherever Negroes are voting in large numbers, you do see a different climate in race
relations.
I think of my own city of Atlanta, Georgia, and we have worked there a long, long time
seeking to get Negroes registered to vote. And now the Negro vote is a force in Atlanta with
almost 50,000 registered to vote. This means that no mayor can be elected in Atlanta without
the Negro vote. This means that no alderman can be elected in Atlanta without the Negro
vote, and it really makes a difference. I remember when the present mayor, a man of good
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will I'm convinced, was running for governor several years ago. He was a segregationist, he
talked about the eternality of segregation. But then when he started running for mayor, he
started talking about integration. And somebody asked him one day: why did he change? He
said, "Well, I have seen the light now." Well 50,000 votes will make anybody see the light.
(applause.)
Last year, I remember very vividly some of the students from Atlanta University and
Morehouse College and Spellman and Clark and the other schools in Atlanta went down to
attend a legislative session at the statehouse there. And they went in and went into the
balcony where the spectators were seated and they were almost kicked out and threatened
with arrest if they didn't get out immediately. But I'm happy to report to you tonight that not
only are Negroes able to sit in the balcony now at the statehouse, just a year later. But now a
Negro is sitting on the main floor helping to make the laws for a state of Georgia.
(applause.)
Now this is because of the ballot and this will be done more and more if this job of
increasing, of doubling the number of registered voters is undertaken with zeal and courage.
Then there is a need for the Negro to use his buying power to achieve a sense of dignity.
And I am not speaking of something negative now, I'm speaking of something positive. I'm
not speaking of a negative thrust to put somebody out of business, but a positive thrust to
put justice in business. And I think the time has come for the Negro to say to industries and
businesses all over this country, "If you respect my dollar, you must respect my person."
The buying power of the Negro is now more than $20,000,000,000 a year, which is more
than all the exports of the United States, and more than the national budget of Canada. It's
still far from what it should be, but at least it reveals that it is a force and it is large enough
to make the difference between profit and loss in almost any business. And we know that
there are industries and businesses all over the country practicing glaring and notorious
discrimination against Negroes in employment. And so that is a need for selective buying
programs. We have started in several cities already, and pretty soon we will be calling a
national conference to launch a nation-wide selective buying program. The procedure would
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certainly be to begin with negotiations, starting out negotiating with an industry, urging
them to change their policies and employ Negroes in more than the manual areas or the
unskilled areas. And, then, if there is a refusal, there would be no alternative but to inform
people all over this country-Negroes and white peoples of good will that this particular
business, that this particular industry, discriminates against Negroes in employment. And I
think this can be a great force for good bringing about a sort of moral balance within our
nation.
But after we do all of this—(applause)—we must supplement what is being done with nonviolent direct action. And I'd like to take just a few minutes to say something about this
method of non-violent direct action since it has been the method that is being, and has been,
used over the South-and over the country for that matter-over the last few months and for
the last few years. For I am convinced that non-violence is the most potent weapon available
to impress people in the struggle for freedom and human dignity. Now first, this method has
a way of disarming the opponent. It exposes his moral defenses; it weakens his morale and,
at the same time, it works on his conscience and he just doesn't know how to handle it. If he
doesn't beat you, wonderful. If he beats you, you develop the courage of accepting blows
without retaliating. If he doesn't put you in jail, wonderful. Nobody with any sense loves to
go to jail. But if he puts you in jail, you go in that jail and transform it from a dungeon of
shame to a haven of human freedom and dignity. Even if he tries to kill you, you develop
the quiet courage of dying if necessary without killing. And there is something about this
that the opponent just can't grasp; he doesn't know how to deal with it.
Another thing about this method is that it gives the individual a means of working to secure
moral ends through moral means. One of the great debates of history has been over the
question if ends and means. There have been those who have argued that the ends justify the
means. And this is where non-violence breaks with the philosophy that argues this, and in a
system that contends that destructive means will bring constructive ends because, in the long
run, the end is pre-existent in the means. The means represent the ideal in the making and
the end in process. And so it is wonderful to have a method that makes it possible for the
individual to struggle to secure moral ends through moral means. And then another thing
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about this approach is that it makes it possible for the individual to struggle against an unjust
system and yet maintain an attitude of active good will towards the perpetrators of that
unjust system. One centers his vision on getting rid of the evil system, and not getting rid of
the person. In other words, it becomes possible to hate segregation, and yet love the
segregationist.
Now when I talk about love at this point, I'm not talking about emotional bosh. I'm not talking
about some sentimental or affectionate response. Certainly, it is nonsense to urge oppressed
people to love their oppressors in an affectionate sense. I'm talking about something much
deeper than that, I'm talking about that force that is the supreme uniting force of life, that
force which is willing to go the second mile in order to restore the broken community, that
force which is willing to forgive seventy times seven in order to restore the broken
community, that force which somehow says that within everyman there is something of
goodness in a potential sense, and it can somehow be actualized. And this is what we
attempt to do, for we have come to see that hate is a dangerous force, hate is as injurious to
the hater as it is to the hated. The psychiatrists are telling us now that many of the strange
things that happen in the subconscious, many of the inner conflicts are rooted in hate, and
so they are saying, love or perish. Eric Fromm can say in a book like The Art of Loving that
love is the most vital force in life and there can be no personality integration without it. And
this is what I'm speaking of and this is what I'm thinking about, and I think it can be a force
in this struggle to make justice and freedom a reality. And so, in some way, as I've said so
many times before, this is what we are able to say to our most bitter opponents "We will
match your capacity to inflict suffering by our capacity to endure suffering. We will meet
your physical force with soul force. Do to us what you will and we will still love you. We
cannot in all good conscience obey your unjust laws because non-cooperation with evil is as
must a moral obligation as is cooperation with good, and so throw us in jail and we will still
love you. Threaten our children and bomb our homes and, as difficult as it is, we will still
love you. Send your propaganda agents around the nation and make it appear that we are not
fir morally, culturally, or otherwise for integration and we will still love you. Send your
hooded perpetrators of violence into our communities at the midnight hours and drag us out
on some wayside road and beat us and leave us half dead and, as difficult as it is, we will
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still love you. But be assured that we will wear you down by our capacity to suffer, and we
will continue to resist the evil system. And one day we will win our victory, but we will not
only win victory for ourselves, we will so appeal to your heart and your conscience that we
will win you in the process, and our victory will be a double victory. And this method is not
at all without successful precedent. It was used by a little brown man in India by the name of
Mohandas K. Gandhi to free his people from the political domination and the economic
exploitation inflicted upon them for years. He struggled only with the weapons of soul force,
non-injury, moral courage, and love. It has been used in a marvelous manner by hundreds
and thousands of students all over our nation. They have taken our deep groans and
passionate yearnings for freedom and filtered them in their own souls and fashioned them
into a creative protest which is an epic known all over this nation. And for all of these
months they have moved in a uniquely meaningful orbit, imparting light and heat to distance
satellites, and as a result of their non-violent, disciplined yet courageous efforts, they have
been able to bring about integration at lunch counters in almost two hundred cities in the
South as a result of the freedom rides. Segregation is almost dead in the South and almost
dead in every community that we can point to.
And so this is a powerful method. And I believe by using all of these forces and by all these
forces working together, we will be able to bring into being that new day when we have not
only a desegregated society, but also an integrated society. And if we will struggle with
nonviolence, resist with nonviolence, we will go into the new age with a proper attitude
realizing that our aim must never be to rise from a position of disadvantage to one of
advantage thus averting justice. We will not seek to substitute one tyranny for another. But
something will remind us that black supremacy is as dangerous as white supremacy, and that
God is not interested merely in the freedom of black men and brown men and yellow men,
but that God in interested in the freedom of the whole human race.
This is a challenge. Great opportunities stand before America at this hour. To paraphrase the
words of John Oxenham, "To every nation there openeth a way and ways and a way. The
high nation climbs the high way, and the low nation gropes the low, and in between, on the
misty flats, the rest drift to and fro. But to every nation, there openeth a high and a low way.
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Every nation decideth which way its soul shall go." And God grant that we here in America
will chose a high way, a way in which men will be able to live together as brothers, a way in
which every man will respect the dignity and worth of human personality, a way in which
the words of Amos will become real: "Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness
like a mighty stream," a way in which we will live out the true meaning of the Declaration of
Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that
:
they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness." And, if we will follow this way, we will be able to
transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. We
may take courage and we may gain consolation from the fact that we have made strides, that
we have solved some of the problems, we have done some things in spite of the fact that
there is still much to be done. We do have that consolation behind, that we have done
something. And so I close by quoting the words of an old Negro slave preacher, who didn't
quite have his grammar right and his diction, but uttered words of symbolic profundity. His
words—worded in the form of a prayer—"Lord, we ain't what we ought to be, we ain't what
we want to be, we ain't what we gonna be. But, thank God, we ain't what we was."
MODERATOR: Dr. King would you be willing to comment on the Muslim movement and
the extent of its power?
REV. DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: Well, first let me say that while I disagree
with the philosophy of this movement, it is necessary to realize that it didn't come into being
out of thin air. It is here because certain conditions brought it into being. It is symptomatic
of the deeper unrest, of frustration, the discontent of many Negroes in America. And the
conditions of discrimination in their varied forms brought this movement into being; these
are the things that the Muslims thrive on. And it is just as important to work to get rid of the
conditions that brought this movement into being than it is to condemn the philosophy. It
may well be the fact that a movement like this is alive in 1963 in America is an indictment
on America and Christianity and democracy itself. And it means that we've got to become
more democratic and more committed to the principles of our religious heritage. Now as far
as the influence, the power of this movement, I would say that up to this point this movement
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has not appealed to the vast majority of Negroes. The best estimate would place the number
of members around 75,000. I think the FBI says about 75,000. Dr. Eric Lincoln in a recent
book on the movement says about 100,000 or a few more. But it is still a small number when
you think about the fact that there are approximately 20 million Negroes in the United
States. And I'm sure that it is true that the vast majority of Negroes have not, at this time,
come to the point of accepting this idea. I think there are many, many more than a hundred
thousand who would agree with their criticism of America society, and I do say that it is a
challenge to everybody to work harder to get rid of the problem because they are going to be
here as long as we have the problem. Groups like this will exist. It doesn't get off the ground
in communities where progress is being made in race relations; it does in communities
where you see retrogress and a great deal of frustration and the constant development of the
ghetto. So it means that it is necessary to work together to get rid of the conditions that
brought it into being as well as condemn the philosophy.
(applause.)
ANNOUNCER: You’ve been listening to a special edition of the New American Gazette. The
Revered Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was recorded at the FHF in Boston on March 24th 1963. The
New American Gazette was produced by The New American Gazette was produced for the Ford
Hall Forum by Deborah Stavro. Post-production engineer is Brian Sabo.
Major funding for the New American Gazette is provided by Digital Equipment Corporation.
Additional funding is provided by League of Women Voter’s Education Fund, a non-partisan
organization encouraging informed, active, citizen representation in government. The programs
are produced in cooperation with the nation's presidential libraries, the National Archives and
Northeastern University.
If you'd like a cassette of this program, send a check for $12 to the Ford Hall Forum, 271
Huntington Avenue, Suite 240, Boston, Massachusetts, 02115. That's the Ford Hall Forum, 271
Huntington Avenue, Suite 240, Boston, Massachusetts, 02115.
Join us again for the New American Gazette.
�MS113.0008 Transcript
END OF RECORDING
�
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Title
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
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Ford Hall Forum
Language
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English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Sound
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Add here the embed url for streaming audio or video files.
<br /><iframe width="100%" height="300" scrolling="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/405610320&color=%23ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&show_teaser=true&visual=true"></iframe>
Duration
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00:58:54
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Episode of the New American Gazette featuring Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s 1963 speech at the Ford Hall Forum, " Desegregation and the Future" [audio recording and transcript]
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968
Jordan, Barbara, 1936-1996
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0008
Rights
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Copyright may be retained by the creators of items in this collection, or their descendants, as stipulated by United States copyright law. This item is made available with permission for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Identifier
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ms113-0008
Description
An account of the resource
Three weeks before he was jailed for leading peaceful protesters in Birmingham, Alabama, Dr. King addressed the Ford Hall Forum in Boston on March 24 1963. His address, "The Future of Desegregation," coincided with the centennial of the Emancipation Proclamation. Dr. King called for renewed Federal efforts at desegregation, while noting that "the law cannot change the heart, but it can restrain the heartless." The forum was rebroadcast as part of the New American Gazette program and includes an introduction by Barbara Jordan.
Relation
A related resource
Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
Type
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Sound recording
Format
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Sound recordings
MP3
Subject
The topic of the resource
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Ford Hall Forum
African Americans -- Civil rights
African Americans -- Segregation
Black history
Civil rights
Ford Hall Forum
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/4367a528a7c2b779b7ccfd134abd3597.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=SL-SK5Y9-tUt6BAd1ndRVFRQQygYbQAJ6AqPorbxk6a7cXhNSMEBNqUz4XgwdY8QYJcPLRx90kYVLr-eeeVwCHLLw-MLiMatA%7EczcVCFwy44tlVrU4ElyPkHOOEkcWw8AhOJlUIBgMVshLUodx4wOFmnpw9pECh5QYNi1Py4KbzFEnqO4q5X36a8SYNjH9whxYOLK0qAUjENJtrrd9Jsyx-VpQBWP2OqNJQvPUYJFizW42DARsq%7E2RhETwWJiKqr4sqrzdPCW3A5schQWp2eVBygCG4DwMdhJmoLglUReNoz5ONmRRRpa%7EAmj-nxDRec8xmXCm1Cy9Rz6%7Erje%7Ec95Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
100235f212e3edbccc2bb834213569b5
PDF Text
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Acting under the will of DANIEL SHARP FoRD, proprietor of The Youth's Companion, who died Decem. ber 24, 1899, the Boston Baptist Social Union
-established the Ford Hall Sunday Evening Meetings,
now known all over the country as the Ford Hall
·Forum. The meetings h~ve been continued without
hlterruption every season since they were established, February 23, 1908. The Ford Hall Forum
has not only become a conspicuous public platform
and developed to a remarkable degree the technique
of open discussion of vital questions under orderly
restraint, but it has also served as the inspiration
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:Mr. GEORGE w. COLEMAN, an active member of the
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Union to undertake the enterprise, and from the
first has been the Director and Chairman.
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-Although carried on under r eligious auspices, the
Ford Hall Forum platform is kept free from all
religious, class and race prejudice. For eight years
the meetings were supported entirely by the Ford
funds. Now the expenses are met by the volunta_y
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Union, that organization continuing to grant the
forum the free use of the halls in the Ford Building.
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The following Ford Hall programs, presented in
chronologica.l order, testify as to · the wide range of
public interest included in the topics and also to the
great diversity of speakers enlisted.
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Feb.23-HENRY ABRAHAllIS, EDWIN D. l\IEAD, C. C.
BARRY, ROBERT A. WOODS.
(Opening
night. )
Mar. 1-Prof. CIJARL'ES SPRAGUE SllllTH, "The Brotherhood of ].:tan. "
8-Rnbbi SAMUEL SCHULl\IA..~, D.D., ''What the
.Jew Has· Done for the . W.orld and What the
World Has Done to the Jew.••
" 16-Rev. LEIGHTON WILLXAllIS, D.D., "The Democratic Gospel."
" 22-Rev. THOl\IAS R. SLICER, · D.D., "Three Ways
of Doing Good."
" 29-Prof. THOl\lAS C. HALL, D.D., "The Relation of.
Modern Christian Lite to the Social Problem."
1908-9:.::.SECOND SEASON
- ftn1 imer group called the ·Ford Hall Folks, comprising over four hundred paid annual members, is
the back-bone of this forum. Although . as variegated as the colors of the rainbow in its personnel,
the closest fellowship is enjoyed and the utmost
harmony prevails alike in social gatherings and in
the business meetings.
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Nov. 1-Prof. THOl\IAS 1..-XXON CARVER, LL.D., "A
Man and His Vote. "
8-l\Iiss ELIZABETH S. COLTON, "The People and
Problems of India."
" 15-Prof. WILLIAllI SALTER, "Tolstoi's Story ot 'A
Soul'S' Resurrection.' "
" 22-Rev. O. P. GIFFORD, D.D., Rev. PHILO W,
SPRAGUE, Rev. GEORGE WILLIS COOKE,
Rev. DANIEL EVANS, D.D. Symposium: "Socialism as I See It.,,
" 29-Prof. WALTER RAUSCHE:NBUSCH, D.D., "Are
Our National Standards Ethical?"
Dec. 6-Prof. BORDEN PARliER BOWNE, "Lite-And a
Good Life."
" 13-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., "The Tyranny
of Majorities."
" 20-LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, "The Ethics of Savings
Bank Insurance." ·
" 27-Rev. ALBERT PARKER FITCH, D.D., "Christ•
mas as a Social Institution."
.Jan. 3-LINCOLN STEFFENS, "Other People's Graft."
" 10-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, "The State and
Morality."
" 17-liEIR HARDIE, l\I.P., "Reforms Accomplished
by the British Labor Party."
" 24-Rev. CHARLES STELZLE, "Why the Church
C:tnnot Accept Socialism.''
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There are many young, small .ne1ghbornood lorums where
nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited to printing the program and paying the .janitor, and
the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meet these small bills. On the ot_ er hand, there are well
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established community forums, exerting an influence for
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Jan. 30-Prof. WALTER RAUSCHENBUSCH, D.D., "The
Transition from the Present to a Co-operative
Order of Society."
Jan. 31-JAl\lES O. FAG.-L",, "The Man, the Accident, and
the Railroad."
Feb. 7-Prof. S. L. JOSID, "The Awakening of the Orient
and What It Means to the Occident."
" 14-W. N. HARTSHORN, "The Life of Daniel Sharp
Ford."
Col. EDWARD A,1,.'DERSON, "The Man and the
States'Illan.''
"
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21-Mrs. FLORENCE KELLEY, "New England's
Lost Leadership in Child Labor Legislation."
28-Rabbi Sru"\CUEL SCHlJLlllAN, D .D., "Things That
"
Separate i:ren and Things that Unite Them."
-- ~
Mar. 7-Prof. CHARLES SPRAGUE Sl\lITH, "Working
with the People."
"
"
Feb. 6-Dean -$HAILER l\lATHEWS, D.D., ''Can
M:a.rx."
1910-11-FOURTH SEASON
Anywhere ?"
l\lARION CRAIG . WENTWORTH,
"
"Votes
"
for Women."
Social Force."
11-GEORGE W. COLK\IAN, "The. Religion of the
Nov. 6-Re..-. ARTHlJR H. Si\OTH, D.D., ''When East
Crowd."
l\ieets· West."
"
"
"
Business.''
14-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, " The Fellowship of
the Common Life."
21-Rev. JOHN HAYNES HOLMES, "The Moral Un-
Significance o! Secular Vocations."
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28-Dr. ALEXANDER IBVINE, "The Church and
the Workingman."
Dec. 5-Prof. WILLIAlll SALTER. "Bernard Shaw as a
..
"
"When Is
·
"Religion of the
19-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN,
Common Life."
26-Rev. O. P. GIFFORD, D.D.; "Holidays and Holy
Days."
Jan. 2-Prof. EDWARD A. ROSS, LL.D., " Commercialism."
9-Rt. Rev. WILLIAlll LAWRENCE, S.T.D., LL.D.,
"Has the Church Failed ?"
16-HENRY STERLING, "The Cas·e for the Workingman. ''
"
23-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., "Reforms and
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18-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, "Man and Woman."
25-Rev. O. P. GIFFORD, D.D., "The Birth of the
Social Idea."
HOPKINS DENISON,
Marriage a Success ?"
~,
Immortality.''
Social Critic."
12-Rev. JOHN
_-,,/f)
11-Rev. L'l'.l\lAN ABBOTT, D.D., "Why I Believe in
"
"
"
=!
Jan. 1-Rev. SAl\lUEL ZANE BATTEN, D.D., "The l\1an
at the Bottom."
8-Rt. Rev. WILLIAlll LAWRENCE, S.T.D., LL.D.,
"What Religion Can Do for a Man.''
" 15-Rt. Rev. CHARLES D. WILLIAl\IS, D.D., LL.D.,
"Wealth-Productive, Predatory, and Para-
;:..
::·.:.:
sitic."
"
22-Pres. W. H. P. FAUNCE, D .D ., LL.D., "Education without Schools."
"
29-Rev. HERBERT S . . BIGELOW, "Stealing as a
Fine Art.''
Feb. 5-Rev. THOl\lAS I. GASSON, S.J., "The Dangers
'I
of Socialism."
Reformers."
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rest of Our Time."
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4-ALFRED SUDEKUi\l, Ph.D., "The Social Move-
-
Nov. ·7-FREDERICK VAN EEDEN, l\t.D., "Religion and
.;.•·. . ,•:--~.
13-Rev. GEORGE R. LUNN, D.D., "What Happened in Schenectady.''
20-Prof. WALTER RAUSCHENBUSCH. D.D., "The
Church and the Social Awakening.''
27-Rev. ALFRED W . WISHART, "The Spiritual
Dec.
1909-10-THIRD SEASON
"
23-Dr. ALEXAJ-.'DER IRVINE, "The Church and
the Democratic Ideal.''
30-ALFRED H. BRO,VN, "The Modern Drama as a
~
.. '
Modern 1V1an be Religious?"
13-JONATHA,.", THAYER LINCOLN, "The Case for
the Employer."
" 20-JOSEPH FELS, " The English Budget and What
It l\Ieans."
·
" 27-Rabbi SAl\lUEL SCHULl\lAN, D.D., "The Hebrew
Prophets: The Creators of Modern Religion. "
Mar. 6-Prof. EDWARD A. STEINER, "The Search for
Brotherhood."
" 13-JOHN SPARGO, "The Life and Work of Karl
Portion."
l\lrs.
the
Oct. 16-HE~"RY GEORGE, Jr., "Has the Single Tax Got
28-J. ADA.;}1$ PUFFER, "The Boy and the Gang."
Apr. 4-FRANKLIN H. WENTWORTH, "The Woman's
.. - .
....
"
14-HORACE FLETCHER, "Feeding for E!'!iciency."
21-JOHN Z. WHITE, "Unemployment: Its Cause
and Cure."
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nearly everything is volunteered rnd the expenses are limited t~ printing the program and paying the janitor, and
the casual · contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meei' these small bills. On the other ha~d, there are well
established community forums, exerting an influence for
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Feb. 12-W. E. BURGll.ARDT DU BOIS, Ph.D., "The
·
World Problem of the Color · Line."
" 19-DE WITT G. WILCOX, M.D., "Health, Hygiene,
and Happiness."
" 26-lllEYER BLOOMFIELD, Mrs. SUSA.--, W. FITZ
GERALD, EDWIN D. l\IE.ll>, JA..l'1ES P.
l\llTh'ROE, l\IORRISON I. SWIFT. Symposium:
"What These Meetings Have Done tor Boston."
Mar. 5-Rev. JAlllES A. FRA...--.CIS, D.D., "The Get-Togethe:r Basis in Religion.'
" 12-J. W. BE..--.GOUGH, "The Sacredness ot Property."
" 19-1\Irs. ELLE..--, H. RICHARDS, "Does the Increased Cost ot Living Mark a Social Advance?n
'' 26-l\lrs. HELE..--, L. GRE~FELL, "What Women
Have Done in Colorado with the Vote."
Apr. 2-Rnbbi MAURICE H. HARRIS, Ph.D., "The Bible
as Literature."
9-NOIDIA..--r HAPGOOD, "The Social Function ot
the Press."
:= . .,
1911-12-FIFTH SEASON
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Oct. 15-Dean GEORGE HO})GES, D.D., LL.D., "What Is
the Matter with the Church."
MORRISON I. SWIFT, "What is the Matter with
the People Outside the Church?"
" 22-Mrs. l\IAUD WOOD PARK; "Woman the World
Around.''
29-ALBERT E. "WINSHIP, LL.D., "Eliminating the
Hoodlum Element Among Boys."
Nov. 5-FREDERIC C. HOWE, Ph.D., "How to Make
Boston Efficient, Comfortable and Beautiful."
12-EDWIN D. l\IEAD, "The United States as a
World Power."
·
" 19-Rev. R. J. CA.c'1PBELL, D.D., "Social and Economic Conditions in England."
26-Pres. DAVID STARR JORDAN; LL.D., NThe
Case Against War."
Dec. 3-Pres. SAl\IUEL C. l\IITCHELL, LL.D., "Racial
Adjustment."
10-Rt. Rev. CHARLES D. WILLIAMS, D .D·., LL.D.,
"The Church and Social Justice."
17-Pres. W. H. P. FAUNCE, D.D., LL.D., "The Man
and the Machine."
24-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLDi, "The Nation's Human Resources."
. 31-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., , "Wanted: A
Moral Renaissance."
Jan. 7-NORl\IAN HAPGOOD, ''The Significance of Insurgency.''
Jan.
'
"
"
J
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I~
H-1\(rs. GLENDOWER EVANS, illiss LEONORA
O'REILLY, "The Working Woman and the
State. "
·
21-WILLIAlll T. ELLIS, LL.D., "America's Influence Upon the Older Nations. "
28-Prof. JA.c'1ES HERVEY HYSLOP, LL.D,, "Science and Immortality."
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Feb. 4-Rev. JOHN A. RY&--,, D.D., "The Living Wage."
" 11-H.ARRY PHILLIJ?S, "The Outlook tor Temperance."
" 18-RAY STANNARD BA.KER, "The Progressive
Spirit in Politics."
" 25-Dr. CHARLES FLEISCHER, "Getting to be
Human!'
Mar. 3-Rev. JAMES H. FRANr..LIN, D.D., "The Message of Christianity to Socialists."
" i0-Rnbbi SAMUEL SCHULi\LlN, D.D., "The Claim
of the Decalogue on the ~Iodern Man."
" 17-JAllffiS SCHEIDffiRHORN, "The Ethics ot a
Newspaper :\Ian. "
" 24-1\Irs. El\llLY )IOXTAGUE BISHOP, "Scenes from
the Senate."
" 31-STA."'-TON COIT, Ph.D., "Am I ll!y Brother's
Keeper?"
Apr. 7-JOHN GR.AHA)! BROOKS, "The New Schism In
Socialism.''
14-Dean SHAILER MATHEWS, D.D., "Evolution
and Religion." ,
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Oct. 13-Prof. THOMAS C. RALL, D.D., "The Morals ot
Anarchy and Socialism."
" 20-Rabl>i 1\1.AURICE H. HARRIS. Ph.D., "The Function of the Jew in the World's Economy."
" 27-Prof.
WALTER
RAUSCHENBUSCH,
D.D.,
"Christianity and Socialism:
Their Larger
Parallels."
Nov. 3-.ALFRED W. l\IC CANN, "How Shall the People
Get Pure Food ?"
" 10-Prof. HEXRY C. VEDDER, D.D., "Concerning
Law and Order."
" 17-CLIFFORD G. ROE, "The Un-Social Evil."
" 24-Judge BEN B. LINDSEY, "Giving the Boy a
Square Deal."
Dec. 1-Baroness YON SUTT:!'<"ER, "International Friendship Instead of War."
8-Rev. JO~ HAYNES HOL;lffiS, "The Moral Significance of the Ne,v Politics."
" 15-Ra.bbi STEPHE..--. S. WISE, Ph.D., " The Warfare
Against Poverty."
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15-Prof. HARRY F. ,vARD, "The Challenge of Socialish1 to Christianity."
22:.....Re..-. FRA.J.'°Ii: 0. HALL, D.D. , "The l\foral Law."
29--JOHN CO,TIER POWYS, "The Economic Aspects of Woman Suffrage."
Apr. 5-A. J. PHILPOTT. "The Press and Soci et ys••
GEORGE PERRY l\lORRIS, · "Some Ethical Aspects of Editorial Work. "
" 12-Prof. THOl\L~S C. HALL, D.D., "Religion and
So cial Revolution."
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19--JOHN GRAHAl\l BROOKS, "Before SociallsmWhat ?"
.
" 26-Prof. EARL BARNES, "The Family of the Future."
Nov. 2-l\liss l\IARY ANTIN, "The American Gospel Day
by Day."
9-GEORGE W. HOPKINS, "Advertising and Economics."
GEORGE B. GALLUP, "Advertis'in·g and Democracy."
WILLIAl\l SHAW, LL.D:, "Advertising and ReOct.
..:~'-- :
~- ,·
\
and Weakness of Socialism."
1-HORACE J. BRD>GES, "The Gospel of Ellen
I~ey. "
8-Prof. EDWARD A. STEINER. "The International Mind and the Inter-racial Heart:•
" 15-Hl;GH CABOT, 1\1.D., "The Problems ot Sex
Education.
DE ,VITT G. 'WILCOX, l\I.D., "The Scourge of
Venereal Diseas-e. ,.
Rev. EDWARD CUi.\UII:-.GS, "The Responsihilities of Parenthood."
" 22-CHARLES BR~"'DO:-. BOOTH, "The Case for
the Prisoner."
!\far. 1-LESLIE '\TILLIS SPRAGUE, "Tolstoi, the I\Ian. "
8-lllrs. l\lARY CHURCH TERRELL, "Uncle Sam Feb.
1913-14-SEVENTH SEASON
1r'.ii\. .
•'
(Special program.)
Mar. 2-Dr. J. A. l\lACDONALD, "War and the Human
Breed . "
9-Prof. EARL BA~'ES, "A Successful Failure: A
Study of Robert Owen."
" 16-Rev. LEYI 1\1. POWERS, D.D., "Some Suggestions from Germany as to Necessary Steps in
Social Legislation."
·
" 23-Rev. NICHOLAS YA.--, DER PYL, "Less•ons trom
Recent Industrial Outbreaks."
30--JOHN COWPER PO,VYS, "The Social Message
of Modern English Writers."
Apr. 6-Prof. COLD. A . SCOTT, Ph.D., l\liss l\IARY
l\lULRY, l\liss LOTTA C. CLARK, "Training
for Leadership."
" 13-Rev. O. P. GIFFORD, D.D., "The Social V:alue
of Free Speech."
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~::
23-Birthday Night.
16-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., ''What's
Wrong with the Jew?"
" 23-Rev. PAUL l\lOORE STRAYER. D.D., "How to
Socialize a Competitive ,vorld."
" 30-PETER CLARK l\lACFARL~'E, "The Courage
to Attack. "
Dec. 7-NOR:\IA.J.--, HAPGOOD, "The Modern Drama as a
Social Force. "
" 14-Miss l\IARY P. FOLLETT, "The Social Centre
and the Democratic Ideal.."
JOHN LOYEJOY ELLIOTT, Ph.D., "The Social
Centre and Direct Action."
" 21-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, ''Walt Whitman:
Prophet and Democrat.••
" 28-Re..-. ALLJ:-X K. FOSTER, "Can Religion Be
1\fade Scientific?"
J'an. 4-Bishop John W. HAi.\llLTON, D.D., ''Is It Fair?"
" 11-Miss l\lARGARET SLATTERY, "A Forward
Step Which Has· Been Successfully Taken in
Fitc.hburg."
lllrs. SUSAN W. FITZ GERALD, "A Fundamental Difficulty in the Way of Improving Boston's
Schools."
" 18-Rt. Re..-. CHARLES D. '\TILLLUIS, D.D., LL.D.,
"Why I·Work for the Single Tax."
" 25-Prof. ALBIO::-" ,v. SMALL, LL.D., "The Strength
Nov.
Dec." 22-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, "How Much of .the
New Order is _ the Present?"
In
.
29-Prof. . CHARLES PROSPERO FAGNANI, D.D.,
"God and Democracy."
J'an. ?-Mrs. ANNA GARLIN SPENCER, "Are the Public Schools Democratic?"
Miss FRANCES G. CURTIS and ISAAC HARRIS,
~•The Local Situation."
" 12-Prof. VIDA D. SCUDDER, "The Moral Asset of
the Class Struggle."
·
" 19-Yru~I KIN, 1\1.D., "The Awakening of China. "
" 26--JOSEPH FELS, "J'ust Taxation the Hope ot the
World."
Feb. 2-Rev. JOHN A. RYAN, D.D., "The Right and
· Wrong of the Labor Union."
9-EDWARD A. FILENE, "The Growing Pains ct
Democracy."
16-STEWART Al'\"'DERSON, "As an Immigrant Sees
· 9:
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nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited t~ printing the program and paying the. janitor, and
the casual contributions taken at the meetings suffice to
meei' these small bills. On the other hand, there are well
~stablished co=unity forums, exerting an influence for
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Apr. 19-Prof. WALTER R..\USCHENBUSCH, D.D., "Is
the Woman -·Movement Going to Save Society?"
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Apr. 11-Prot. HARRY F. WARD,- "What Constitutes a
Good American ?
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1915-16-NINTH SEASON
1914-15-EIGHTH SEASON
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Oct. 18-WILLIAlll ENGLISH WALLL.",G, "The Message
o! Syndicalism."
" 25-Jll.iss l\IARY A.c"\TIN, "God and His World."
Nov. 1-Prof. EARL ' BARNES, "What Work Should Give
Us Besides Bread."
8-Miss JIIARGARET SLATTERY, "Energy-Undirected and Misdirected."
lS~OHN LOVEJOY ELLIOTT, Ph.D., "The Child
and the City."
" 22-LESLIE WILLIS SPRAGUE, "Will Demo"racy
Endure?''
" 29-Mrs. MAUD BALLD!GTON BOOTH, "After
Prison-What?"
Dec. 6-STANTON COIT, Ph.D., "Is Civilization a
Disease?''
" 13-NOltl\IAN HAPGOOD, "The Military Ideal."
" 20-BOUCK WHITE. "If Christ Were to Come on
Christmas Day."
" 27-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, · "Militancy and
Morals!'
Jan. 3-Rev. GEORGE A. GORDON, D.D., "A Message
for the New Year."
" 10-Uabbi HARRY LEVI, "The New Morality."
17-Rev. JOHN HAYNES HOLMES, "From .A.bS'olute
Monarchy to Pure Democracy in Industry...
" 24-Rev. JOH..", ,v. ROSS, "The Credit Side.''
" 31-Prof. WALTER RAUSCHE::,(BUSCH, D.D., "The
Economic Basis o! Democracy."
Feb. 7-Rev. JOHN A. RYA...-,.,, D.D., "~Iinimum Wage
Laws and Their Operation in America.."
" 14-LOUIS ,vALLIS, "The Newer Issues in Democracy."
21-S. K. RATCLIFFE, "Classes and Masses in ·the
England or Today.''
28-PETER WITT, "A City Finding Itself."
Mar. 7-Rabbi SA..i.1IUEL SCHlJLllA...",, D.D., "What Constitutes a Good Jew']"
" 14~OHN SPARGO, "Socialism and the War."
" 21-Fran ROSIKA SCHWL\L'\IER, "Women and
War.''
28-Prof. FRA...-...K O'HARA, " What Irish Immigra'tion Has Done for America."
Apr. 4-Prof. CHARLES PROSPERO FAGN.U.'I, D.D.,
"The War, the World, and the Kingdom of
God."
Oct. 17-LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, "Zionism and the Aims ot
Jewish Democracy."
" 24-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., "Is War Cureless ?"
" 31--Hon. FRANCIS :NEILSON, . l\I.P., "Sign-Posts ot
Democracy."
Nov. 7-Rev. SA..i.1IUEL ZA..i.-...E BATTEN, D.D., "Is God or
Man to Blame']"
" 14-MORRIS HILLQUIT, "Some current Economic
and Political Problems• "
.
·
" 21-LOUIS F. POST, "Government Intervention In
Idleness."
" 2S-JAl\lES P. l\IAGE.-...XS, "Some Lessons Learned
from the Law.''
Dec. 5-HENRY TUR::,(ER BAILEY, " Socializing the
Public Schools."
" 12-NOIUIAN JLU>GOOD, "ShaII Birth Control Be
Discussed?"
" 19-Prot. EDWARD A. STEU.ER, "Conservation
Versus Immigration:•
" 26-Prof. CJL-lRLES ZUEBL~. "The United States:
Pacemaker or Peacemaker?"
Jan. 2-Rabbi l\IAURICE H. HARRIS, Ph.D., "America's
Exposition and Europe's War : A Contrast!'
9-HUTCHINS HAPGOOD, ''.What Is ·an Anarchist?"
16-Rev. J. HOWARD l\lELISH, "Humanity First."
" 23-Hon. GEORGE L. RECORD, "Tile High Cost ot
Living: Its CauS'e and Remedy. "
" 30-S. K. RATCLIFFE, "The War and the Outlook
for Democracy."
F eb. 6-WOODS HUTCHINSON, l\LD., "The Medical
Treatment of Crime."
" 13-Prof. SCOTT :l'<"EARING, •·working and Owning
for a Living."
" 20-ALFRED ,v. l\IARTL..._, "What Are We Here
For?"
27-Prot. BR~O ROSELLI, "Italian Immigration
After the War."
l\Iar. 5-Rev. WILLIAM HAlli.'\.LL.", VA.'< ALLEN, S.T.D.,
"The Discipline of Struggle.''
·
·
12-~"DRE TRIDON, "An Inside View of Mexico."
19-Prof. ARTHUR HOL:.u:ES, "What ·of the Backward Child?'"
" 26-l\Irs. CHARLOTTE PERKINS GILMA.,.'<, "What
Feminism Is-and Isn't."
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Apr.
2-Rev. HENRY F. COPE, D.D., "The Pam!ly and
the l\:Iorar Crisis."
9-Rev. ABRAHAM M. RIHBA..'<Y, "Some Phases
of Democracy.1"
1916-17~TENTH SEASON
Nov. 5-Rev. JOHN HAYNES ·- HOLl\lES, "The International l\1ind."
" 12-JAl\IES J. WALSH, l\I.D., "The Happiest Era in
Human History. "
·
" 19-Ilev. 'VILLL-1111 NORllL<\N GUTHRIE, "The
Problem of a Ne,v Am-erican Patriotism."
" 26-ROGER W. BABSON, "Labor's Only Hope."
Dec. 3-Rev. EDWARD F. SA1'"1>ERSO~, "Something to
·
Tie to. "
" ,10-RICHARD A. FEISS, "Personal Relationship In
"
"
Business Administration.''
17-llliss r..ATE BARNARD, "Woman and Destiny."
24-I'rof. CHARLES ZUEBLIX, "An American Sir
Galahad."
31-l\Iiss l\IARGARET SLATTERY, "Making a Liv"
ing and a Life."
.J:tn. 7-Hon. GEORGE R. LUNN, "The Progress of
"
Democracy."
14-Prof. HliGH BLACK, D.D., "The Meaning of
Life."
" 21-l\Irs. CHARLOTTE PERKL",S GILl\IAN, "Our
·Brains and What Ails Them." ·
" 28-TVY L. LEE, "What Is to Become of Our Ra!lroads ?" _
Feb: 4-Rev. JOHN A. RYAN, D.D., "Fallacies of the
Feminist l\1ovement."
" 11-ED,VIN l\IARKHAllI, "The Social Vision at
Jesus."
" 18-RICHARD W. HALE, "'The Truth . About Property: Who Uses It?"
·• 25-\l~NTER RUSSELL, '"Civic Strife or Co-opera-_
tion?"
M:tr. 4-GERALD STANLEY LEE, "The President and
the Fate of the World: · An Inauguration Day G~eeting from ~ord Hall to the White House."
11-Rabbi H. W. ETTELSON, "From Persecution
Through Toleration to Brotherhood."
•· 18-GEORGE W. NASl\IYTH, Ph.D., "Nietzsche and
the European War."
"
·,··~,1-~J••·.1'•-•:
.
_.
lilt!
"".•--. ..:Z,;. , __. . _; ·,.,
There are many young, small .neighborhood forums where
nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited t~ printing the program and paying the janitor, and
the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meet these small bills. On the other hand, there are well
~stablished community forums, exerting an influence for
r"
·,
,_ 1
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:j
1917-18-ELEVENTH SEASON
Oct. 28-SHERJIIAN L. ,VHIPPLE and Hon. HERBERT
PARiiER, ''Initiative and Referendum. ' '
1
Nov. 4-HARYEY W. WILEY, )I.D., "Whiskey and Tobacco."
" 11-1\Iiss HELEN LOUISE JOHNSON, "What Thrift
l\1:eans."
,. 18-S. P. CHUAN, "China and America"
" 25-Prof. HENRYY R. PATTENGILL, "Made In
.America "
Dec. 2-Rev. HA~OLD MARSHALL, D.D., "Self-Sacrifice
vs. Self-Preservation."
9-1\Irs. BERTH.-1. KUNZ B.U-U:R, Reading or
Bjorns-en's Play, .. Beyond Human l\.Iight."
16-Prof. HARRY El\lERSON FOSDICK, D.D., "A
Religion for War Time."
" 23-JA)lES J. W.llSH, lU.D., "'What is Progress?"
" 30-Prof. CIL;\.RLES ZUEBLIN, ·"Federalism and
World Organization.••
Jan. 6-Rev. FRED P. HAGGARD, D.D., "The New
Spirit in Russia."
" 13-P. l,'. SULLIY•.\.;.-..,, "What the Bay State Railway
Has to Say for Itself...
·
" 20-FELIX SlIAY, "Why Socialistic Communities
Always· Fail as Such."
" 27-1\IOORFIELD STOREY, "What Law Is and
'Why We Need It."
Feb. 3-B. R. BAIDIGARDT, "The Romance a! Human
. Progress ...
10-Lieut. BRUNO ROSELLI, "Some Lessons Learned
at the Italian Front."
''American
" 17-1\Iiss
l\IARGARET
SLATTERY,
Youth and the •New Democracy.".
1918-19-TWELFTH SEASON
1919-20-THIRTEENTH SEASON
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Oct. 19-Prof. BRUNO ROSELLI, "The Present Situation
·
in Italy."
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Oct. 20-ARTHUR GLEASON, "What America Can Learn
from the British Labor Party's Program."
27-l\Iiss l\IARY YAN KLEECK, "Women and War
Work."
Nov. 3-GEORGE W. NAS)IYTH, Ph.D., ."The Growing
Power of the ·world's Labor Forces."
10-ALBERT RHYS WILLIAl\IS, "The Bol~heviks
and the Labor Problem."
17-NORZILL." THOMAS, "What Shall We Do with
Victory?"
24-PHILIP WHITWELL WILSON, "Britain's Problems, Including !~eland and India."
Dec. 1-JOHN COWPER PO,VYS, "The Effect _ of the
War on the Democratic Ideal."
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nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited t~ printing the program and paying the janitor, and
the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meec' these small hills. On 6e other hand, there are well
established community forums, exerting an influence for
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Oct. 26-Prof. EARL BAR::-."ES, "Shall the State Control
Our Ideas?"
1
Nov. 2-Rev. CHARLES A. EATON, D.D., "New Factors
in Business."
9-Rev. JOHN HOWARD MELISH, "New Morals
for Old Sins."
" 16-Dean CHARLES R. BRO"IVN, D.D., "Why I Am
Not a Socialist."
" 23-Prof. HARRY F. WARD, "The New Motive In
Industry."
·
" 30-EVERETT DEAN l\lARTIN, "A Twentieth Century View of Evolution. "
Dec. 7-Judg-e A. C. BACKUS, "What Society Owes the ,
Erring."
" 14-JOHN A. FITCH, "If Not Strikes-What?"
" 21-1\lrs. l\lARGARET DELA1''D, "The Dull Job .."
" 2S-l\Iiss JEA1'~"ETTE ILL"i'KIN, ''What the NonPartisan League Has Meant to American
Politics."
Jan. 4-JOSEPH Elli"i'EST lllcAFEE, "Is Religion Failing
in America?"
·
" 11-Rev. JOHN HAYl<"ES HOLllIBS, ''Whence, Why,
Whither: A Survey of the Times."
" 18-ALGERNON S. CRAPSEY, S.T.D., ''The Ethics
of .Jesus as a Basis of the New Social Order."
" 25-EDllllTh'D VANCE COOKE, "The Religion ot
Democracy."
Feb. 1-Rt. Rev. CHARLES D. WILLIAMS, D.D., L.L.D.,
"The Challenge of the Times."
8-GEORGE CREEL, "The Irish Question trom the
American View-Point."
" 15-Rabbi STEPHEN S. WISE, Ph.D., "How to ·
Americanize and How Not to Americanize."
'" 22-Motion Picture Forum: "The Miracle Man. "
" 29-llliss l\lARGARET SLATTERY, "I Go to WarAfterwards."
Mar. 7-Rabbi JUDAH L. l\IAG:NES, Ph.D., "The Old
America and the New."
" 14-HARLAN EUGE!>"E BEAD, "Shall Inherita.noes
be Abolished?"
" 21-1\IORRISO:K I. SWIFT and ROGER W. BABSON, "Should Socialism be Suppressed?"
" 28-Prof. EDWARD A. STEINER, "The New World:
Who Wants It and How to Get It."
1920-21-FOURTEENTH SEASON
Oct. 17-Presidential Night. RICHARD K.ITCHELT, lllrs.
SUSAN W. FITZ GERALD and GEORGE E.
ROE,VER, Jr., "How I Shall Vote and Why,"
" 24-Prof. HENRY W. L. DA.NA, "Labor Conditions
in England, France and Germany."
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Oct. 31-Prof. HARRY F. WA.RD, "Civil Liberty in the
United States."
Nov. 7-TOYOKICHI IYENAGA, Ph.D., "Is There a Yellow Peril?"
14-PHILIP. CA.BOT; - The Spirit of the Employer."
"
"WHITI.L"i'G ,VILLIAllIS, "The Mind of the
Worker."
·
" 21-NORlllAN HAPGOOD, "The Next Administration."
·
" 28-l\Irs. l\lARIETTA L. JOHNSON, "Education for
the New Age."
Dec . . 5-Bisltop FRA.......,CIS J. l\IC CO~'ELL, "The
Church and I..a.bor."
" 12-·w. E. BURGHARDT DU BOIS, Ph.D., "The
Future of the Darker Races."
" 19-Rev. JOHN HATh"ES HOLMES, "What Shall We
Think of the Bolsheviki ?"
" 26-Prof. CHARLES ZUEBLIN, "Has America Any
Ideals•?"
Jan. 2-ARTHUR D. REES, "Financial Imperialism and
the Way Out."
9-Prof. NATHANIEL SCHl\lIDT, "The Goal ot
Civilization."
" 16-,VALTER W. LIGGETT, "The Future of the
American . Press."
·
" 23-l\lrs. BEA.TRICE FORBES ROBERTSON-HALE,
"The Women of the Future."
" 30-Prof. DAVID D. VAUGHAN, "The World Sweep
of Democracy."
Feb. 6-EVERETT DEAN l\IARTIN, "The Psychology of
the Crowd Mind."
" 13-Uev. 'WILLARD SCOTT, D.D., ' "The Coming New
World."
20-l\Irs. LUCIA A.lllES l\lEAD, "The New Education."
Prof. BRUNO ROSELLl, "The Industrial Revolution in Italy, "
27-SCOTT NEARING, Ph.D., "Leadership and Democracy."
Mar. 6-GEORGE O'DELL, "Marriage and the Home."
" 13-EDWIN l\IARKHAL'1, "How to Think of the
Spiritual World."
20-LOUIS F. POST, "Deportations."
27-HERBERT ADA.l\lS GIBBONS, Ph.D., ''What
About Redeeming Our International Pledges·?"
Apr. 3-EDWARD HOWARD GRIGGS, L.H.D., "The
Future of Democracy.''
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1921-22-FIFTEENTH SEASON
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Oct. 16-Dr. ALEXA..."i'DER IRVTh"E, ''What"s Wrong with
the World?"
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nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited to printing the program and paying the janitor, and
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meet these small bills. On the ot_ er hand, there are well
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A~
FE\: w FORUM TESTIMONIES
Oct. 23-,VALTEJ{ N . POLAl{OV, "Korsybski' s New Law
of Life."
" 30-:.\IOISSAYE J. OLGIN, Ph.D., "The Balance
Sheet of the Russian Revolution-What the
Revolution Did and What It Failed to Accomplish."
Nov. 6-TARAKNATH DAS, "l\Iahatm!\ l\I. K. Gandhi
and the Progress o! the Non-Violent Revolutionary l\<Iovement in India ...
" 13-Rev- G. S. LACKLA.t."1>, Ph.D., "Where the
Church :.\let Labor."
" 20-ROGER ,v. BABSON, "The Business Man's Attitud'? Toward Education. "
-.,. 27-Col. RAY..\IOND ROBINS, ''World Disarmament
or World Revolution-Which?"
Dec. 4-Dr. TEIIl"'I HSIEH, "What China Means to the
United States. "
" 11-Rev. JOH.--. HA~ES HOLlIES, "Our Growing
Distrust of Democracy : Is It Justified."
" 18-CHARLES KROLL, " From Socialism to Business
-and the Consequences.·•
" 25-CHARLES ZUEBLIN, "Education for Freedom."
Jan. 1-HOi\IER B. HULBERT, F.R.G.S., "A Yank in
·the Far East. "
8-WHITING ,VILLLUIS, "Bayonets, Bols·hevism
and My Buddies."
" 15-i\Iiss i\lARGARET SLATTERY, "The Power of
Prejudice."
·
" 22-EVERETT DEAN MARTIN, "The Idolatry o!
Public Opinion." ·
" 29--GLE~'N E. PLUi\IB, "Industrial Democracy."
Feb. 5-Rnbbi LOUIS ,voLSEY, "The Jewishness o!
J es"Us."
12-·wILLL\.ill PICKENS, LL.D., "A Common Plat•
form for White and Black."
19-Rev. JOHN A. RYA.....""'i, D.D., "Is Labor Gaining
or Losing?"
26-HELEN DAVENPORT GIBBONS (Mrs. Herbert
Adams Gibbons), "'Understanding the French
Peopl e.''
·
l\far. 5-Prof. DALLAS · LORE SHARP, "Education for
Demo cracy. "
12-1VILLIAM M. LEISERSON, Ph.D., "ls Industrial
Democracy a Dream ?"
10--GEORGE CREEL, "The Future of Progressivism. ''
" 26-EDWARD HOWARD GRIGGS, L.H.D,, "The
Educa tion of American Citizenship."
Apr. 2-Rev, ALBERT C. DIEFFE~"BaCH, D.D., and
Rev. ,v. HARRY FREDA, "The Upheaval in
Protestantism.' '
"'':->,
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" . . _.=,.+:'tou.
·,., :~-•,
know that I admire very greatly that
ente:Jllinse (the Ford Hall Forum) and _wish it ail
poss1j ble success. You have steered 1t through _
trol
led waters for ·many years and have brought it
not mto port, but out on the very high seas, where
its
voyage encourages many other vessels on the
sam ,e sea." -PRES. W. H. P. FAUNCE, D.D., LL.D.
... _:-1·
.r.\
"F , ' Hall is one of the few audiences that give
rd
th · lecturer uncommon gratification."
-MOISSAYE J. OLGIN, PH.D.
believe in the Forum and think it has tremendous
P'.f>ssibilities in our country in the general education
o~ the masses on matters of high importance to both
hurch and State." -REv. JAMES L. BARTON, D.D.
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I wish there was anything in the world I could do
o help along the Open Forum movement in this
ountry. I feel that it is one of the most important
xpressions of human hope and courage which we
. can put up against the Bolshevist movement, which
------P means the destruction of civilization."
-MARGARET DELAND
"The Ford Hall group has become a permanent· body
of public influence, the work of which reaches far
beyond the borders of Boston."
·
-REv. JoHN HAYNES HoLMES
_.., '¥~
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......
"From the days when we ran the FREE FLOOR at
old Chicago Commons, over twenty years ago, until
this hour, I have believed in the service in ·com•
munity fellows3ip and social education of such
meetings as those held by the OPEN FORUMS."
'
-COL. RAYMOND ROBINS
"
"
--:,·.
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"I am glad to hear of the success of the forum
movement during the past year, both at Ford Hall
and throughout the country. I think there is nothing more vital to the creation_ of a right and free
public opinion than the forum movement, and I think
there is nothing so essential to the United States
today as the formation of intelligent public opinion."
-RT. REV. CHARLES D. WILLIAMS, D.D., LL.D.
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Oct. 23-WALTER N. POI
of Life."
"
30-i\IOISSAYE J.
(
Sheet of the I
Revolution Did
complish.'•
Nov. 6-TARAliNATH Di
1
and the Progre, .
tionary ~Ioveme1
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13-Rev- G.
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20-ROGER W. BAB:
"
PLATFORM OF PRINCIPLi · .-, " '.· ;,.-~~ ..-.,.,,/ _
27-Col. RAY\IO::-D l
titud" Toward E
The0penForum3lanJ3for:
or World Revolu
Dec.
4-Dr. TEIIYI HSIB
"
11-Rev. JOir.-1 HAY
D istrust of Dem,
18-CHARLES liROLJ
"
United States.,.
-and the Conse ·
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J"an.
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22-E'"\,'ERETT DEA::,i
Prejudice ...
"
Feb.
"
form for White
19-Rev. JOHN A. R
or Losing! "
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26-HELEN DAVENI'
. Adams Gibbons )
P eople."
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5-Rnbbi LOUIS
J"es-us."
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12-1\-'ILLlli\I PICfil
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Mar. 5-Prof. DALLAS L ·
D emocracy."
" 12-WILLIAi\I i\I. LEl
Demo cracy a Dr(
"
19-GEORGE CREEL
ism. "
26-EDWARD HOW,
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MILIJKl:D C. SMITH, Executive Secretary
There are _111any yuwig.,
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nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are limited t~ printing the program and paying the janitor, anu
the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meet· these small bills. On the other hand, there are well
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At the beginning of any given meeting the chairman himself must be ready. All preliminaries should be settled before the time of beginning, and there should be no appearance
of machinery on the platform itself, such as whispered conferences, etc.
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The · Forum Chairman .
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At least fifty per cent of the permanent success of any
forum is due to its chairman. After being for ten years the
chairman of a successful forum I am not required to prove it;
I admit it.
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It need not be pointed out that all this assumes that a
single individual is to preside continuously over a forum. A
poor permanent chairman is better than a constant succession
of good ones. For only by continuity can he and the audience
become mutually acquainted, and that acquaintance is primary and elemental to the good will and confidence which a
chairman must inspire.
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Specifically, the chairman's duties for a given meeting
begin at the preceding meeting, when he must translate the
speaker-to-be into human terms, so that the audience will be
thinking about him during the week and unconsciously come
with a sense of acquaintance and an attitude of symr>athy.
Many things can be wisely and trutllfully said at the meeting
preceding the speaker's appearance that could not well be
said in his presence. A brief word at this time concerning
the timeliness of the topic an.d the general way of approach
may be desirable.
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The chairman must remember that the audience does not
come to see or hear him. He has a right to take whatever
time is necessary to properly present the speaker and the
subject. He has no ~ight to take any time for himself.
Whatever preliminaries, as to music, etc. there may be, together with the chairman's introduction, if all have been
p:·operly coordinated, should focus on the moment when the
chairman delivers the audience to the speaker.
Whatever the character of the address, the chairman
must maintain a constant appearance of alert and eager interest in what the speaker is saying. I believe the ·chairman,
by seeming listlessness and indifference, can almost hypnotize a large part of the audience into the same attitude.
The essential qualities are those required for leadership
anywhere. Quickness of apprehension, depth of comprehension, breadth of sympathy, and a sense of humor that can .
"rise triumphant over sin ,and death." The chairman must
remember that, in John Bunyan's graphic phrase, "he dwells
in the Interpreter's House." He must interpret the speaker
to the audience, the audience to the speaker, and the audienc~ to itself.
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The chairman must open the meeting exactly on the minute scheduled. It will be found after a short time, if this is
the rule, that the audience will prepare themselves instead of
1 having to be brought to order and attention by the chairman .
There is democratic psychology involved in this seemingly
_
insignificant detail.
He is also the official leader of the clacque. If he finds
the speak er a bit heavy, so that the audience is growing listless, he should watch for any excuse to start applause. The
mere sound of handclapping will not only be a stimulus to
the speaker, but will rouse the audience to attention.
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When the speaker has finished, one of the crucial tests
and golden opportunities of the chairman arrives. If he is
able to synthesize in two or three ringing sentences the vital
message of the spealcer, he can do much to drive it home to
the audience. If there has been a jarring or contentious note
in the speaker's utterances, he may oftentimes smooth the
rough edge away by two or three happy phrases.
If there has been apparent antagonism between the
speaker and certain sections of the audience, it is for him to
frame an inclusive whole truth that shall include their antag.
onistic h~lf-truths.
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To most chairmen the question period is the most important part of the meeting: It is important, but in the aggregate
and in the long run no more so than the ones already suggested. It is, however, in the question period that the chair-
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MILDRED C. SMITH. Executive Secretary
There are many young, small .neighborhood forums ~here
nearly everything is volunteered and the expenses are Jim•
ited to printing the program and paying the janitor, and
the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
meet _
these small bills. On the other hand, there are well
establi~hed community forums, exerting an influence for
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man's real leadership or lack of it becomes apparent. If he
is a mere mechanical mouthpiece to repeat the words of the
questioner, he is something worse than sounding brass or a
tinkling cymbal. In many instances he will be rE:quired to
state intelligently a question which the questioner himself
only half understands. In others, to reduce to a succinct
phrase the involutions of a mind that refuses to function coherently. Still again, a smile and a happy turn of phrase will
be required to take the bitterness or animosity out of a question, burning with a sense of injustice or blatant with bigotry
and prejudice.
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SUPPLEMENTARY NOTES
By GEORGE W. COLEMAN
He ought also to · be ready to meet the pauses that sometimes happen even in the best regulated forums, when nobody
is quite ready with a question, and to have framed in his own
mind certain questions worth being answered and which may
in turn get the discussion forward.
Founder and Director of Ford Hall ForumBoston , Mnss.
From this outline it will appear that the ideal chairman
is nor even a little lower than the angels. Perhaps he bears
an even closer r_ semblance to the quadruped that appears
e
in the old story of the farmer who went to the circus and saw
a giraffe for the first time. After scrutinizing the animal
from all possible viewpoints, he spat vigorously and remarked, "There ain't no such animal!"
-It would be difficult indeed to frame the duties of a
Forum Chairman more satisfactorily than Dr. Marshall has
done in very brief compass. Following such a compact presentation of the topic, however, there are bound to arise
many questions in the minds of those who are contemplating
the setting up of a forum. In the following paragraphs I will
attempt to answer some of these imaginary questions.
This is not, however, to be construed as a counsel of perfection or an expressioD of pessimism. A man who knows
people and who loves humanity and truth will find his heart
as sure a guide as his head in what, to those who have had
the expei:ience, not only brings a deep sense of enjoyment.
but does far more ·for the chairman's own education than he
can possibly do for the audience.
How long should the Question Period last?
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Under ideal conditions the audience will be allowed as
much time to question the speaker as is given to the address
itself. But the discussion should never be allowed to continue
beyond · a definite, specified time. It is as important for the
meeting to close on schedule time as it is for it to open at
the advertised hour.
Is speech-making allowed from the floor?
We have come to hear the appointed speaker of the evening and to draw from him his special knowledge and particular point of. view. If there is another side to the subject under discussion, worthy of presentation, find a suitable speaker to handle it and give it another evening. Do not allow
helter-skelter speech-making from the floor. It robs others of
their time for asking a question, it dissipates and sidetracks
the main t hought of the evening and it opens the door for
cranks and nuisances to monopolize the meeting?
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There are many young, small .neighborhood forums ~here
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the casual contributions taken at. the meetings suffice to
mee~- these small bills. On the other hand, there are well
~tabli~hed community forums, exerting an influence for
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MILDRED C. SMITH, Executive Secretary
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a time limit on questions?
That depends upon whether there are others eagerly
awaiting their chance to be heard. At the Ford Hall Forum
in Boston and many others, the questions come so thick and
fast it is seldom possible even to give one chance to all
those who a1·c anxious to express themselves. Eut if a questioner is manifestly unsatisfied with the answer he got, or
gives evidence that his question was not rightly understood
by the sp1taker, the chairman will often go back to him and ·
give him another chance.
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Maybe the questions are few and far between.
that managed?
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Must the chairman
questioner?
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As soon as a chairman has gained the confidence and
g-ood will of a forum audience (and this can hardly be realized with constantly changing chairmen), the question period
almost regulates itself. The audience having become accustomed to the modus operandi will brook no _nfringement by
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an obstreperous seeker of the limelight and will often show
their impatience and objection before the chairman has
thou~ht it n ecessary to call the trnublesome one to 0 1·der. It
sometimes happens, however, that the chairman must stand
between a restless or ruthless audience and some innocent,
earnest questioner who by his peculiarities happens to excite the mirth or provoke the impatience of his hearers.
Every effort made by the chairman to secure even-handed
justice for the lowliest and most ill-favored questioner redounds to his benefit in the long run, and some night when he
finds himself in a particularly difficult and ticklish corner he
is helped out of his dilemma by the good will and responsiveness of his audience.
How is
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repeat the exact language
Very rarely; only when the question is so compact and
so carefully framed there is no other way. Often the chairman can rephrase it, making it briefer and more pointed.
Sometimes it is much too long for repetition and one can
give only the gist of it. If the situation is growing too tense,
the chairman may relieve it by raising a laugh ofttimes by a
mere inflection of the voice oi: turn of the head when he is
repeating a question.
In that case each questioner may be given _more time
and allowed a second or even a third question. The cµairman
himself will be ready with a worthwhile question and he will
throw out suggestions to stimulate the audience and try to
put them at their ease. In new forums it is often found advisable to pledge the committee and other interested persons
to be ready with a question.
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He must ask a question and not make a statement. It
must relate to the subject presented by the speaker. No discourtesy to the speaker, the chai~man, or the audience is
permitted,-no assault on any one's religion.
In a large forum audience. where there is an eager desire
for the questioning, the chairman will do well to take the audience section by · section, thus avoiding confusion and ·enabling him to deal more justly with those who are trying to get
his attention. (No one presents his question until the chairman has indicated it is his turn.) At Ford Hall I never start
with the same section of the audience two successive evenings, but wherever I start I proceed in regular rotation
around the hall and, having finished with one section, never
go back to it. And keeping my eye on the clock I allow only
so many questions in each section, so as to be sure to cover
all sections of the hall before the closing hour, ten o'clock
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What rules must a questioner observe?
Suppose several questioners arise in different parts of
the audier.ce at the same time. What then?
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In order that every one in the audience may hear it; so
that the chairman may clarify or emphasize it; to give the
speaker a moment in which to catch his intellectual breath
before answering; and finally, and most important of all, because it puts the control of the meeting in the hands of the
chairman where it belongs. Otherwise your speaker and
some questioner would soon fall into ' a personal discussion.
Debate back and forth between a speaker and one questioner
is never allowed.
May one ask a second question?
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Why is it necessary for the chairman to repeat the questions before the speaker answers them?
No, the good faith of the questioner and the good sense
of the chairman determine now long the question may be.
Long enough to make the point clear; not so long as to waste
the time of the audience. Under the guise of a question,
cleverly framed, one can easily present his own point of
view, challenge the speaker's, or express agreement and
· commendation.
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~stabliihed community forums, · e~ert!ng · ~n influence for
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MILDRED C. SMITH, Executive Secretary
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No, the good faith of ·the que
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Long enough to make the Point clf
the time of the audience. Unde
cleverly framed, one can easily
view, challenge the speaker's,
commendation.
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That depends upon whether
awaiting their chance to be hearc
in Boston and many others, the q
fast it is seldom possible even t
those Who a;·c anxious to express
tioner is manifestly unsatisfied v
gives evidence that his q1,1estion
by the speaker, the chairman wil
give him another chance.
~PRINCIP
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2. A common .meeting ground
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In a large forum audience. wh
for the questioning, the chairman
dience section by section, thus a·
ling him to deal more justly With
his attention. (No one Presents
man has indicated it is his turn.)
with the same section of the a1
nings, but wherever I start I J
around the hall and, having finis
go back to it. And keeping my e
so many questions in each sectio
au sections of the hall before th
Maybe the questions are fe.,,
.that managed?
In that case each questtone
and allowed a second or eiren a t
himself Will be ready with a wor·
·throw out suggestions to StirnuJ,
put them at their ease. In. new
visable to pledge the co1:1inittee
to be ready with a que5 hon.
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The complete development of demo
in America.
Suppose sever-at questioners .
the audier.ce at the same time.
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The Open Forum sfands for:
people in the interest of truth
understanding, and for the cultivati
co.rn.rnunity spirit.
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For free Participation from the foru.rn
either by questions or discussion.
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5. The freedom of foru.rn .management
responsibility for utterances by spe
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection 1885-2011 (MS114)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Meyers, Arthur S.
Description
An account of the resource
The collection contains 9 boxes of Arthur S. Meyers' research files related to his book, <em>Democracy in the Making: the Open Forum Movement</em>. The book, published in 2012, chronicles the history of the nationwide open forum movement, including the role of the Ford Hall Forum. The collection contains photocopies of letters, articles, and programs related to open forums and the movement’s proponents such as George W. Coleman and Mary Caroline Crawford. <br /><br />A <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/researchguides/12/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">finding aid</a> is available which describes and inventories this collection. Digital files are available at: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/</a>
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil society -- United States -- History
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Crawford, Mary Caroline
Democracy -- United States -- History
Meyers, Arthur S
Political culture -- United States -- History
Political participation -- United States -- History
Relation
A related resource
See also, the Ford Hall Forum Collection (MS113), Suffolk University
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ms-0232
Title
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Fifteen Years of the Ford Hall Forum 1908-1921, pamphlet
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1908-1922
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Featured: George E. Coleman
Source
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Meyers Open Forum Collection, 1885-2011 (MS114)
MS-114 Folder: 47
Type
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Text
Documents
Format
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PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Political participation -- United States -- History
Rights
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Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/-/media/suffolk/documents/about/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections/ms114_findingaid_pdftxt.pdf?la=en&hash=486EEBE8C7ED9B1E7B1E8400F934ED64828945AC">finding aid to the Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection (MS 114)</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p></p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Sound
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Embedded Media
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<br /><iframe width="100%" height="300" scrolling="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/628432662&color=%23ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&show_teaser=true&visual=true"></iframe>
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
0:50:23
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MS113.0192
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Forum: Martha Burk's speech, "Cult of Power: Sex Discrimination in America and What Can Be Done About It" [audio recording]
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
12 April 2005
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Burk, Martha, 1941-
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS113.3.1/0192
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound recording
Sound recordings
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
MP3
Subject
The topic of the resource
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Ford Hall Forum
Sex discrimination against women -- United States
Sex discrimination in employment -- United States
Augusta National Golf Club
Relation
A related resource
Find out more about our collections on <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/academics/libraries/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections">our website</a>.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright is retained by the creators of items in this collection, or their descendants, as stipulated by United States copyright law. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Ford Hall Forum
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/79cbcfc2d213d2109ff7667a37c7f68c.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=UqFV8uxar2vrCMzsj-eiqffSdItikHz-iUQiOyLWIlEojrRN95W6HwO2A68qxeF761mclpsZd%7Ek-oyMk5qv1rpoR%7EwMq3Umox9VtwmnAT3NroeooBh7Rvi%7EOMEWh-xKS6H1rLb5g1u2KJwVS9rhsBVWvX9exomucTUztCak56kUWKF3R14SoK9msI-YzV9%7Ew5wIsB3nuZgLP22DXxNLCxjbQZR%7EG9HzlA8Iq21DQqePnr9OVqKDbxmyCxaKNrsduRJYFdLyidebbubIHBxxCNiCev1vUuXFZ3GfUnNBG8cJnee95DzqjBNa4qn3yePNRyuAGSggRfdFg-6K9jsOLsg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
ae22ce8879aa078b1db82b72c84400f8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0136
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Folks Annual Old-Fashioned Party and Frolic postcard, 1935
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1935
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Postcard for the Ford Hall Folks Annual Old-Fashioned Party and Frolic, held at Kingsley Hall, Ford Building, Tuesday, February 26, 1935, 6PM. Postcard notes catering by old friends and famous Swedish caterers Larsen & Ericksen, serving chicken pie dinner with all the fixings. Price of admissions is 75 cents. Back of postcard includes Ford Hall logo, postage paid stamp, and cartoon.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 17
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Cards
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Parties
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/045aeae1253f21e989eec3d8f78920c4.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=IDNf3R08pYEGYkWJWiyE2DonAltl6tITiVTq2sboDa5ken74mXqHTlxbqQaqs3ofdPqNhzSTtUUe9cHRPu%7EQcx1OL4EGBRS3RmizX-8QlwemK5gUXE-bF2qrxpuMwSzY2SKu17QAb0dujksAm-JtrsaY3yNiwI9coxZkTbZMloYx7Ac5XL0mew8NXameygx2NvCrXLBfKhqLfCjM7MKEEYKYoSdrZiHCzGlWRllfCPy8X9NyVtWOb%7EqKToUejPhCKJaVVEuSrg1QhPG-MGjb2qL10fwMxuCQ1plBNnIhKvVr6RDpg2mOVoQI9XebkCAfvKbsQluSzsBiUMqEaZ-WgA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
fcf8f9e52e6698e533128c3d185969f8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0166
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum 75 Years of Public Discourse Anniversary Booklet, 1983
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1983
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Kindle, Millicent
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Booklet created for the 75th anniversary of the Ford Hall Forum featuring a history of the Forum.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 199
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Kindle, Millicent
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/4c2941d6295abd354dfe0c9cc05cf66a.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=cIxlL6J-3gbip8Jh63Wq2V-hzl1Lvx9Rqlf7UFNE4690KlA6GTMmp1faiOXFOvRBETwVyUjN81s-KLXU9K2tAKTLIY4WOWKerZaPdWiKg8R7p58Vk45PM4FgmeGcOD5XgcEVODgukft0uFegi7s8LRJd2taVx1LAmGg6AsiKz%7EtnVY-P9s7bq-KfJHArXpp72xLYBiBhrPjMKZCWI0vxuyDpPa0GMul2gIuuuZnXJumGy24ZygvmEkYIqU%7ER6yA8%7EZ71JlFr2VmCu66vfsd2aE5sBwVTZl2kH%7ESiLB9Er0BqulIKg7dzVK1M0pKYuoMdC1IYuw973EpK4tIT50OdfQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
07ee93395f8ad07d699a07f7233e3476
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0137
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Announcement of 29th Season, 1936
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1936
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Pamphlet announcing the opening of the 29th season, 1936-1937, of the Ford Hall Forum. "Advance Announcement" written on front cover. Season line up includes Ernst Toller, S. Miles Bouton, John Spivak, Bertrand Russell, Norman Thomas, Herbert Agar, John T. Flynn, Constantine A. Oumansky, Emil Ludwig, Lord Marley, Salvador de Madariaga, Vito Marcantonio, Smedley D. Butler, Arthur Willert, Dorothea Brande, Ernest Dimnet, Gerhart Segar, Jennie Lee, Erskine Caldwell, Alfred Adler, Shidzue Ishimoto, Harry A. Overstreet, Langston Hughes, Raoul de Sales, Helgo W. Culemann, John Hayes Holmes, Harold J. Laski, and Alexander Meiklejohn. Pamphlet also lists adult education activities including Our Little Theatre, Dance Group, Discussion Group, Classes in English, German, and Russian, the Youth Forum, and the Ford Hall Forum Town Meetings.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder 21
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Hughes, Langston, 1902-1967
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
Soviet Union
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/4368156a28a9c7aad6c418f6fabc33d6.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=rRJs1l1ZqSAdeCFzN6GfJV4XSab-pnVxiZdEOkY1qhR7XKydyo7JhfPQJOTgYSVsVOLmg358ZjRi15nf1HEeSjaCUIRLdjJYK006n1b6p72moeWNe8oUVas6V3G2ouigPjyHj3mk8PO88ut8ofySvLcEPFN-wqF0UzqnjtYMno%7EqdmgcekfF0%7ELAaIYZzMvPqiyJgWxJuSUDN9CvukBWu1nl7SsE8vf0To2UgktFiKfftafED6usrO1Ro7JwS7YAl5MA7VW6k0I1GMXD4gkSTWXi6HvP88zQPezVgtK1Zqn8clenD7IDDdjCXdaPi-pv5%7EAGtwwKLykhl47pE5XF%7EA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
c3e806c8492c078a6198606be53a056a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0139
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Announcement of 30th Season, 1937
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1937
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Pamphlet announcing the opening of the 30th season, 1937-1938, of the Ford Hall Forum. "Advance Announcement" written on front cover. Season line up includes Stuart Chase, Klaus Mann, Emil Ludwig, Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, Ernest Dimnet, Dr. Louis Berg, Herbert Agar, Max Lerner, Heinz Liepmann, David Seabury, Horace M. Kallen, Scott Nearing, Karin Michaelis, S.K. Ratcliffe, Constantine Oumansky, Robert Gessner, Denis Conan Doyle, Martha Gellhorn, V.F. Calverton, Sir Norman Angell, Professor Harry A. Overstreet, Senator Robert M. La Follette, Dr. Massimo Salvadori, Mary Sandall, Reverend John Haynes Holmes, and Count Herman Keyserling. Pamphlet also lists adult education activities including Our Little Theatre, Dance Group, Discussion Group, Classes in English, German, and Russian, the Youth Forum, and the Ford Hall Forum Town Meetings.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 21
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
Soviet Union
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/42ff310686b26ce72648692fda56965d.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=iBMvlfvkfmlKDje8PgwDrumS%7Ee6Yp%7EfAh0Tig7kH7iejEQJjINcidbDAh6asCFvU2sxztCAyWMS8iI6U5wjfdfh53v9sKl5Zy1OjcD3V3rsMjdglk41Rm6O54WmIwYHYqF6XWZlo36XZkvTniJ4m6sMhTUBuqOzzU8gEGlbmUWc3v0H8HhpE25%7EJmBmjUHcHX6-Sj3i-vFCCMt8H1MJpCSII6J-9Gx3QvZAyriabaIrIbNg%7E7Ouw92-Oplc4Z7qtapx8EyI6h3EaVBWZL39%7ETEEGldQAnwAafqITOhYGtfDJ1%7ENG5M6qqk55KWhWrijVyir6BBL%7ESu%7Ewfaz8V91h7A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
bed7382ff09820fbdc86f068fbbe3437
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0141
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Announcement of 32nd Season, 1939
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1939
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Pamphlet announcing the opening of the 32nd season, 1939-1940, of the Ford Hall Forum. "Advance Announcement" printed on front cover. Season line up includes Vincent Sheean, Rabbi Joshua Loth Liebman, William Patrick Hitler, Stephen S. Wise, Ernest Dimnet, Herbert Agar, Professor Mortiz J. Bonn, Max Lerner, Louis Fischer, Hamilton Fish, Norman Thomas, Michael Williams, Louis K. Anspacher, Pierre Van Paassen, Maurice Hindus, Reverend Father E.F. Murphy, Harry Gideonse, T.V. Smith, Professor Harry Overstreet, Lewis Browne, Mortimer J. Adler, John Haynes Holmes. Pamphlet also lists adult education activities including the Ford Hall Forum Players, Dance Group, Course in Music Appreciation, and the Youth Forum.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 23
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/a4977745874e2a17537010c3769402f2.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=IxJNgZNkwm0dFLsWJHxtq5p%7EtQfZqDLPPBtDjTTZK3DJreEaj2Si%7EBP3I5d1NlxbPYBozb5ova46fepP%7E8Savfm55cfKNwy0EsazFjxyczDN5hcdKKPfIAep2er-Kvy%7EtakT7butroUxvBWduJDuODFhuPLZw1hzUSxiCK0Jt4BmfT7q%7EtVeYQzrkcY3IttiHwT38Bu4KK8Rmu0Y4OCOc7GrmBGIyQDBZnVFs5NT50b8mxDR%7EuZtEsn1bH7J7vvYtljY0WvymcjoJ2N7gqaY8eQvrBSgAzOIeWpQJbqb9EhIliDfOIyxy58IJ-96wcYgSJmpe9Y5zFstHrTPNPi1aA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
23a28e91829b3474222f85140dc55997
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0147
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Announcement of 65th Season, 1972
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1972
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Pamphlet announcing the opening of the 65th season, 1972-1973 of the Ford Hall Forum. Season line up includes Ramsay Clark, R. Buckminster Fuller, Dr. Margaret Mead, Dr. Isaac Asimov, Ayn Rand, John O. Boone, Dr. Jerome G. Miller, Dr. Max Lerner, Dr. Rollo May, Dr. John R. Silber, Elma Lewis, Roy Wilkins, and J. Kenneth Galbraith. Pamphlet also includes membership information.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/1.1 Folder: 64
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Asimov, Isaac, 1920-1992
Rand, Ayn
Wilkins, Roy, 1901-1981
Mead, Margaret, 1901-1978
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
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8d793794c5e0bea0ac91a376bd3a5031
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Object
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ms-0163
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum cloth banner, undated
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Cloth banner for the Ford Hall Forum. Banner is navy with a white border and white text. Top texts of banner reads "Ford Hall Forum." Below is an image of a torch with flames.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/3.3 Folder: 20
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Physical object
Ephemera
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
JPG
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
-
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871e22113920a54a60acb7bfb18e85bb
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6f321d78d3f37f7d5a17732062360b1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Object
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ms-0160
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum felt banner, undated
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Felt banner for the Ford Hall Forum. Banner is navy with a white border and white text. Top text of banner reads "Let There Be Light." Center of banner has an image of a torch in the middle of the year "1908." Bottom of the banner reads "Ford Hall Forum."
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/3.3 Folder: 19
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Physical object
Ephemera
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
JPG
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
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63902c578ec4e5b4f1fdcc12834e32d8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Collection, 1910-2013 (MS113)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Language
A language of the resource
English
Description
An account of the resource
The Ford Hall Forum Collection documents the history of the nation’s longest running free public lecture series. The Forum has hosted some the most notable figures in the arts, science, politics, and the humanities since its founding in 1908. The collection, which spans from 1908 to 2013, includes of 85 boxes of materials related to the Forum's administration, lectures, fund raising, partnerships, and its radio program, the New American Gazette.<br /><br />The digital files are being moved to: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fordhall</a>
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
<p>View the <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/cgi/siteview.cgi//researchguides/11">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum Collection</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p> </p>
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ms-0164
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Fifteenth Anniversary poster, 1923
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
25 February 1923
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Ford Hall Forum 15th Anniversary poster, includes photographs of Alice H. Samson, George W. Coleman, Mary C. Crawford and several lectures.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Ford Hall Forum Collection,1908-2013 (MS113)
MS 113/3.3 Folder: 08
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Posters
Format
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JPG
Coverage
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tgn: 7013445
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/MoakleyArchive/ms113_findingaid.pdf">finding aid to the Ford Hall Forum</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
Ford Hall Forum
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/18af6f603778cc69bbaed71a54164278.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=h%7E9cjhIJ1vZTNF0YMlvo%7EvbuIvhy7LjskCP8ymGQCbPN%7ED2W23jISulpt7iMh-8g5dZZp157Ve8hz8tOu3wV9j6Z3GzK1vHNHAxFLX4DkQaQiqrQK9NrWloGg5mtNGslmFA3uPhnwimV2d8c692zAfAOsAaH6SccI%7EpkKd5ZkgP5nhvrb5SqKEYFXEat8i7c%7Eaq48fRT%7EggfptYYWbVwkx31IR7TJSWOVTDULLSt9TPK5sAo7wmvPemeDTQpgUjXC6yFox-rQli9n8pbEdlCJ3MYyGgGnw1OnrEmnzpZX778TGL9wUYs1AF6RbETzNhGPZMczQixEIg1-flnnSjcjA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
89eb7c721bb397c57a4f583c8d79105f
PDF Text
Text
,.
)
jfcrb
1ball jfclks
December 29, 1912.
_VoL. I. · No. 1.
WHAT WIL~ YOU DO ABO.UT IT?
Price Ten Cents,
all loyal Ford Hall friends. He is
deeply and m1se!fishly Interested : in
th!l work, and the future of ttie publi;
cation will be largely depeqdent o~.
his success In selling It.
! The first number of this little pub1llcatlon will re1nlnd some of us of the
Initial Ford Hal~ Sunday Evening
)lleeting of nearly five years ago, At
that meeting there were only one hun'pred and fifty present.· Will . more
'people than that number buy' a copy
of this little bulletin? It. Is my guess
that there will, be more than .that
Of course you have heard abo~t om:
many who will buy a copr,. What do
Birthday Party on February 23 and
you think about It?
about the letters which are then to be
: If• this publication can enjoy anypresented to Mr. Coleman, bound in a
thing like the Increase In circulation
beautiful book. The chairman of the
,which has characterized the growth
com101ttee In charge of that day has a
In attendance on the Ford Hall meetword to say In this, our first Issue,
ings,· It can wield an Influence for
about those same letters. Be sure and
'good almost equal · to that which
read his message.
imarks the meetings themselves,
I If everyone who Is deeply Inter• • If you like this little paper-and we
ested in the Ford Hall meetings will
trust you will-you will be glad to
'take an Interest In extending the cir•
know something of the group from
1culatlon of Ford Hall Folks, our llttl!;l which It sprang, that devoted body of
Ford Hall Folks, as they call themjventure will be an Immediate success.
selves, who :U:eet In the lower hall of
•So many have asked at various times
!If there was not something that they l<'ord building, every third Sunday afternoon, to devise ways and means of
!1nlght do to help along the cause since
i.naklng the meetings better. Already
'we take no collection at the meetings
they have· rendered one Immense serand never ask for subscriptions for
, vice to the committee by organizing, as,.
t!1e work. This Is your chance: Buy
Line Ushers, those cheery men and
coples of this paper every week and
women wearing red satin 'badges who
1
!circulate them· among people who
are facilitating the filing of the crowd
iought to be Interested In the worlc
into the hall on Sunday evenings. We
:we are trying to do, Send them to
bespeak your cooperation in the ,efforts
friends In other cities and towns with• of these, our new assistants.
the idea of encouraging them to start
*
a series of similar meetings, '
Mrs. Anna· Carlin Spencer· Is to be
i
I• I bespealr for our young friend, Mr:
om· speaker, next Simday evening, her
Lori don, who will act as business
topjc being, "Are Our Public Schools"
: agent for om• little paper, the hearty Democratic?" .Mr,s. •Fletcher Copp will
'g·ood will and· active co-operation of be In charge of the concert.
I
1
1
1
•
i
I
__ J
j
/
,I
... \
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection 1885-2011 (MS114)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Meyers, Arthur S.
Description
An account of the resource
The collection contains 9 boxes of Arthur S. Meyers' research files related to his book, <em>Democracy in the Making: the Open Forum Movement</em>. The book, published in 2012, chronicles the history of the nationwide open forum movement, including the role of the Ford Hall Forum. The collection contains photocopies of letters, articles, and programs related to open forums and the movement’s proponents such as George W. Coleman and Mary Caroline Crawford. <br /><br />A <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/researchguides/12/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">finding aid</a> is available which describes and inventories this collection. Digital files are available at: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/</a>
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil society -- United States -- History
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Crawford, Mary Caroline
Democracy -- United States -- History
Meyers, Arthur S
Political culture -- United States -- History
Political participation -- United States -- History
Relation
A related resource
See also, the Ford Hall Forum Collection (MS113), Suffolk University
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ms-0195
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford Hall Forum Folks newsletter, vol. 1, no. 1, 12/29/1912
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1912
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Meyers Open Forum Collection, 1885-2011 (MS114)
MS 114, Folder: 53
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Documents
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
PDF
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Political participation -- United States -- History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
A related resource
<p>View the <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/-/media/suffolk/documents/about/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections/ms114_findingaid_pdftxt.pdf?la=en&hash=486EEBE8C7ED9B1E7B1E8400F934ED64828945AC">finding aid to the Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection (MS 114)</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p></p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
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1369122baf50921d80a710dbf8ad97f9
PDF Text
Text
I
'
I:
SPECIAL BIRTHDAY NUMBER
Jforb 'Rall Jfolhs
Vol. I.
No.
10.
l\farch
FIVE YEARS OF A NEW WORLD.
·,1
; I
/.
/
We do not realize it, but there is
no precedent for what happens every
Snnday evening at Ford Hall. I know
of nothing that matches it, and never
heard of anything just like It.
The
Cooper Union meeting' is entirely without the definite, though all-inclusive,
religious note.
'fhe Chicago. Orcl1estra O!ub is frankly and . exclusively
Christian.
The Rochester· "Peo11le's
Sunday Evening" is more nearly · like
unto our work, but the· Ford Hall
Meetings are entirely unique in' that
they make the most unlimlteci and universal appeal and yet are founded· on
the limited base of an orthodox,. Protestant church,-the Bapthit! ·.
· ·:
For five years the Fdr'd ·mili' folks
have seen Protestant, Catholic, .Tinvlsli
and Agnostic leaders give their mes·sages to an audience made up of _the
same varied elements, and . the audience in turn ha~ been privileged to
catechise these speakers without Jet or
11indrance. The most vital issues of
religion, economics and civics have
been freely discussed.
Great crowds
l1ave thronged tlie- place of assembly.
Never once in all these five years has
there been any violence or serious distnrbance, and as chairman of the meetlugs I have never once had occasion
to use even a gavel to preserve order.
At the beginning it was promised by
i:he Boston Baptist Social Union,
through me as the chairman of its
Committee on Christian Work, that
these meetings should not be used as
a propaganda by any one not even by
itself, but shotild be co1;ducted without prejudice to race, cla,ss or creed,
That pledge has been kept both in the
spirit and In the letter, and the meetlugs have thus become a. blessing to a
multitude who could be helped In 110
.other way,
They have been carried
911 with the sole purpose of serving the
community and with no thought of
benefitting exclusively any particular
orga(1ization, be it religions, social or
polit1cal.
·
·. I want to take advantage of this op. portunity to express my pride and de-'
1lght in the patience, forbearance,
broacl-mincleclness and independence ·of
2,
Price Ten Cents
1913.
my own brethren of the Baptist Social
Union who have ,so nobly upheld my
hands during all the difficulties and
ti;ials necessarily incident to this pioneer work. I often wonder whether
the men of some other sect would have
stood the test so well. At all events,
it makes me' 'glad again for the thousandth Ume that I am a Baptist.
· And· as· 'for the part played by the.
lamented Daniel Sharp Ford in mak·irig all this possible, I am quite certain it must rejoice Ms soul If he can
·1n1ow· but' a tenth part of the nure joy
and 1111alloye·c1 ·delight which his hene·factio1i · has already brought to thou·sands· who until now have had but
li_ftl~ ·ch~nce · to understand or appre·mate the kind of Christianity he stood
.for: · · ·
·
. , As fo!' myself, although the obllgat10ns have ·been onerous, and tne strain
and stress very exhausting, I count it
·the greatest· privilege and joy of my
life to lwve served in this cause. Some
of my dearest friends are among the
Ford Hall 'folks and my heart goes out
to every last one of them, and generally the more to those who sometimes
make it rather strenuous for me.
There isn't one toward whom I do not
have the utmost ·good will-even Urbansky, whom I was fast learning to
love when the law ·made Mm itl; v'c•
tlm for nn]Jermltted sfreet:pi·eaching.
Looking Into the future,· I cannot
tell what lies in store for us, a1iy·more
than l could have foretold· in· the beginning that .we would last "even five
years. But I feel fafrly certai'n;' nevertheless, that at our · tenth annlversary we shall see s·o'me remarlrnhle developments beyond our. ])resent lines
of activity, I have· bee11 looldn°· for
it from the· begh111fog. It seems"'very
much nearer now .pian ever befor~.
Most of us belie:ve in praye1~1et us
pray hard. Let the others wish hard
Goel will imclerstand the one as well a~
the other. And ·any psychologist wlll
tell yon .that wishing hard for a thing
'is. the best possible beginning for
bringing it to pass.
·· .
,,
.;
· · .
·
tr ~~
··
(} ·
'
o.,.._,..._,,
�2
FORD HALL FOLKS
JIUS, MAUICS
JI H. UOJU~I!'l'S
It was eminently fitting that, Immediately following the musical numbers,
,vlth which the exercises of our Fifth
Anniversary
program opened, we
should listen to Mrs. Marks' "Singing
Man," that wonderfully beautiful ode
to a time when conditions of labor
were such that men could sing at their
work. The poem was read by l\Irs,
Marks herself (whom most of us know
better as Josephine Preston Peabody).
and ,vas given with rare taste and feeling-the author making, as she faced
that upturned sea of earnest faces, a
very beautiful picture-as a poet eel'·
tainly should.
Then came the following appreciative tribute to Mr. Roberts and to the
two conis of ushers:·
It is with great pleasure tlrn,t on
this occasion of the fifth birthday of
Ford Hall meetings we take this op•
portunlty of expressing our true admiration of your work, and the noble
elements of character which have directed and ins]Jired It. Your services
in the cause of education have taught
us to rely on that voluntary principle
which has inspired the best life in all
ages of the world. We' congratulat(l
you upon the splendid work you have
done, to help to make .these meetings
a success, and may you long continue
to help on this noble cause, with
which we all feel proud to be associated,
THE BIRTHDAY PRAYER.
_l
Almighty God, blessed Father of us
all, we rejoice with joy unspeakable
that it is our privilege to come to Thee
as the children of one household, not·
withstanding our fathers before us
have never been able to realize their
common inheritance and could not sit
together at the great Father's table to
enjoy -the wonderful feasts in spiritual
things which he 'has provided for all
his children,
·we aclmowledge our unworthiness,
our short-sightedness, our weakness,
but we love Thee and all thy works,justlce, truth and mercy, Elven when
we lose sight of thy face and cannot
hear thy voice and doubt If Thou livest, still we cling to 'I'hee in everything that is beautiful and sweet and
strong,
Our hearts are overflowing With
gratitude for the way in which Thou
hast gathered together and shepherded
tills ]Jecullar flock, Ofter we have not
known which way to turn, and frequently we have feared that we would
be scattered,
But a power greater
than our own has preserved us, guided
us, and brought us safely and happily
to this fifth milestone In the life of
our fellowship. vVe give thanks, with
all our strength, with all our minds,
with all our hearts.
Hel]J us as we go forward enjoying
the great boon of free speech on all
subjects, in the presence of all men, to
realize that its price is an eternal vigilance over ourselves and a constant
recognition of the rights and feelings
of others.
Do Thou grant to ·us
through this wonderful privilege o!
looldng deeply into the minds and
hearts of all sorts and conditions of
our fellowmen, a continually widening
vision of the. truth, an ever-increasing
te11derness of sympathy, a constantly
broadening tolerance of understanding a dee]Jenlng sense of brotherly ob~
ligation, and an ever-growing .firmness
of determination to see justice done in
this world here and now.
,ve commit our way unto Thee. .we
pray. for strength and grace. We re•
joice in what ,has been given us. WEl
go forward trustfully, humbly,. expec; ·
tautly, . Amen, .
]IH'. (:ll'J"I
Nor was the i\lusil'
Meetings overlooked
bears witness.
TESTIMC
To John Harris Gut
Director of M uslc,
lngs,
vVe desire to expr
tlon of your ea1·nes1
our lives with the ,1c
We feel that In y,
is also a great. deslr,
gospel of better llvh
of true brotherhood.
As a teaclH•r anc
work of inducing h1
tlons through the gll
mony In music, we e
in your ability and p
and trust ~'Oil will ac
as one of the rewnr<ls
service,
Committee of I
All this portion of
: should be said, was 1
manship of George 1
who with Miss H. V.
Pennington, Miss :1!ln1
John J. Snllivnn. has I
weelcs to see t hn t a II
Birt.II day celehl'flt Ion
, smoothly.
What tac·I
this whole, COlllllllttee
how splendid an exam
tlon! Each member Im
Jar duty to perform on
Ing, and nil did their
Pennington, Se('J'etary
Hall Folks, quite co
, with glory, as he mad
. tlon speech to the ush
it with a ston' about
when the head usher
Hall· had to be ca I led
settle a fracas hetwee1
ll.lld an EJlephan t !
�''I
',\
FORD HALL FOLKS
appreciand to the
iha,t on
l'thday of
•, this op•
trno adthe noble
have di•
· services
1e taught
prlnci))le
i fe in all
gratnlate
\'Oil have
meetings
continue
,e, with
lrn assollt'e of
ks, with
· minds,
,njoying
1 on all
men, to
'nal vig,onstant
feelings
to us
!ege ot
·ls and
ions of
icleniug
·reasing
1stantly
•rstand!l'ly ob-
nnness
lone in
•e.
We
We re·
s. We
expec,
~II SS
Nor was the Musical Dir ector of the
Meetings overlooked-as this tribute
bears witness,'
TESTIMONIAL.
To
John Harris Gutterson,
Director of 'Music, Ford Hall Meet•
ings,
'iVe desire to express our appreciation of your earnest efforts to color
our lives: with the joy of good music,
'vVe feel that in your service there
is also a great desire to promote the
gospel of better living and the alms
of true brotherhood,
As a teacher and leader in the
work of inducing harmonious conditions through the gift of divine harmony in music, we express our belief
in your ability and professional skill,
and tl'Ust you will accept our thanks
as one of the rewards of your devoted
· service,
Committee of Ford Hall Folks,
All this portion of the program, it
: should be said, was under the chairmanship of George Brewster Gn llup,
who with Miss H, V. Hathaway, J, 'l',
Pennington, Miss Minnie A, Noyes and
John .J, Sullivan, has been working for
weeks to see that all details of the
Birthday celebration should go off
, smoothly,
What -tact and jndgment
this whole committee displayed and
how splendid an example of co-operation ! Ela ch member had some parti.cular duty to perform on the festal evening, and all did their parts well, Mr,
Pennington, Secretary of the Ford
Hall Folks, quite covering himself
, with glory, as he made his presentation speech to the ushers and capped
it with a story about one pccasion
when the head usher at Noah's Ark
Hall had to be called to the roof to
settle a fracas between a Bull Moose
0.11{! an Elephant!
3
()It,\
W J•'() H II
As Miss Hathaway arose to read her
share of the committee's formal Apprec!a·tlons, a huge florist's box was
borne in from the dressing room by
two of the ushers, When opened this
revealed an enormous ·bouquet of exquisite pink and white roses, tied with
streamers of pink and white chiffon
ribbon, This, with appropriate sentiments, was presented to the surprised
and delighted Secretary of the 1\foetings, to whom also Miss Hathaway
read the following:
TESTIMONIAL.
To Miss Mary Caroline Crawford,
Secretary of Ford Hall Meetings.
In attempting to express our appreciation of the work you have done for
Ford Hall we are forced to admit that
we realize only in faint degree the
task involved In arranging programs
year after year which offer variety
and worth,
But we are, nevertheless, filled with
a deep sense of gratitude for the part
you have played in the attainment of
the
e1i1!,nently satisfactory results
which the Ford Hall fifth anniversary
shows us, Nor could we fail to be
delighted, instructed, Inspired by the
speakers who have come to us from
year to year! Indeed, they have fired
us with a buming desire to live grandly for God and humanity, 'rhus your
efforts are not lost if not quite fully
measured, and like the child who·
never feels the full force of the mother love and care until he is grown
and faces his own life problems, so by
and by, perchance, some Ford Hall
members leaving the home nest and
attempting to launch elsewhere another Ford Hall, may come to lrnow
somewhat of your labors and will then
emulate with gratitude the work so
well do110 by our esteemed Secretary,
'
�1i',
'I
r
'
4
FORD HALL FOLKS
Mr. John J. Sullivan's part of the
J)rogram brought out one of the de•
llghtful surJ)rises of the evening, For
in response to It President Bentley, of
the Social Union, eloquently pledged
his organization to continued· service
In the field which George W. Cpleman
has so successfully developed.
TESTIMONIAL.
To The Boston Baptist Social Union.
This is a significant occasion, the
fifth anniversary Of the incep,tion, by
Mr, George Vv. Coleman, under the
auspices of the Boston Baptist Social
Union, of these F:ord Hall meetings.
It is indeed a happy occasion for the
promoters and participants alike,. as
it marks another milestone In the
progress and development of this Institution, which during its brief existence, has taken a high rank among the
many social and moral endeavors tha.t
have marked the progress of this city,
These meetings have been developed under the direction of the mem·
bers of Boston Baptist Social Union
In the true spirit or Daniel Sharp
Ford, the founder, with marked liberality and enterprise. Through and
by them, we have been given a splen•
did exposition of a true religious
spirit, that transcends all sectarian
bias and affiliations, a radiant exem·
p!lfication of
inclusiveness
that
ignores all racial lines, caste and
class divisions and distinctions.
These prominent features
have
caused these meetings to be fraught
w 1th blessings to all who have been
11rlvlleged to participate In them, and
they have been fruitful by ins11lrlng us
with courage and zeal, to gra11ple with
tbose social and economic problenrn
that challenge public attention and are
11ressing for solution ..
·we extend our sincere co~gratulaticms and felicitations to the Boston
Baptist Social Union upon the arrival
of this happy occasion, and we are
glad to embrace the opportunity
which It affords, to acknowledge our
indebtedness to them and to that ·,vonderful man, Daniel Sharp Ford whosc
gift they administer, for the benefits
conferred, and to assure them of our
sincere appreciation of the many op· vortunlties they have afforded us for
mental improvement and moral Instruction.
"\Ve respectfully urge upon the mem•
bel's of the Boston Baptist Social
Union the prot)l'iety and expediency of
a. continuance and JJOSsible extension
of these meetings, as each successive
year Is making them more and more of
a factor for good, not only In the In-
j
divldual lives. of those· who attend tho
meetings, b1it also in til'e., communal
v.nd civic life of those communltes of'
which Boston Is the comm01~ center,
and lastly, because these meetings are
a visible expl'ession on the part, of the·
Social Union of Its good-will, sympathy and co-operation with all°' those
moral and social forces that are!work•
ing to promote the general welfare,
and of all who are longing for a reallzv.tlon of the greatest of all religious
ideals, "Peace on earth, good-will to
all men."
Committee o( Ford Hall Folks.
Prof. Zueblin appropriately headed
the list In the letters from friends and
admir(lrs of the Ford Hall Meetings,
which Miss Noyes now read.
To Mr. Coleman,
Dear Father Superior:
"On the fifth anniversary ol the birth
of your child, for which I. am one of
the Innumerable Godfathers, I want to
congratulate you and re)oice with you
in the gratifying progress of the infant.
"If we are to get free speech on the
one hand and an expression of our
national faith on tlie other, it will be
largely by multiplying big, reasonable
catholic and spiritual forums, like the
Ford Hall meetings, They prove that
we can voice .our common faith without fearing or being demoralized by
·our differences.
"!\lay you get your compensation in
their perpetuation and extension."
Then, cam(1 the "prize letter," the
one selected by the committee from the
scores of letters sent In to be printed
on the Birthday Souvenir Program as
particularly typical of the Ford Hall
sentlmen,t. There Is a lot to be read
between the lines in this letter from a
Jew to the Movement he so dearly
loves, A lesson Is here for us all if
we have but the eyes and heart for It.
December 24, 1912,
Ford Hall,
Cradle of Fraternity.
Greetlngs:Ford Hall: what magic in its name;
what a charmed atmosphere surrounds it! 'Tis Christmas Eve; I am
penning these lines while the Christmas rarols are being chanted in the
adjoining streets:
"Peace on earth,·
good will to men," Ah, the dream of
the millennium! I arise sore at heart,
open the window of my rear room;
there stands Ford Hall: how· silent,
how mute, but hold,-how eloquent .
and majestic it is, even in Its mute-
. !less, for It see
11ight,-"Why e
rich or poor, n
ground as broth
•where!" "'Tis S
from whatever ,
:faith, and ente1
portals, dedlca t<
of man." Note
appears to be!
negro, the Irish
kee, aye, even I
turbance, neve1
· word, my hono
.have been stan<
out for two hon
·five sea('lons paE
·nights; how I I
and genial Co
•sweet and slst.c
her faithful pos
Gutterson at ti
·contented smile,
song.
A so111
Happily, no; fo1
now and 'lls I
'The fa th er hood
·air. And to th
lng theatre ('Oil<
for me; oh, th
·speaker has rP
·many have dis:
:mark you, not.
,has been noted
know, and some
I possess were
haters.
But s
exist In Ford
melts. And ye
·that I in ret nn
my Christian
them. Such Is
as Ford Hall e:
Members of the
A pal'tlng "
·Chairman at F<
a Jew on behn
truthfully state
that the name ,
Is held with U
. while his loftl1
lllned with snc
has attained f
among them, ti
1mto another In
IN I\
Daniel Sharp
forever be link
11ls life's work
-ers to go and <
Peace t
Si
4
�FORD HALL FOLKS
lil'es of those who attend tho
but also in tii'e,, communal
life of those communites of
)ston is the common, center,
, because these meetings are
~xpression on the part-, of t110,
lion of its good-will, i,ympaeo-operatlon with air°' those
l social forces that are\work'omote the general welfare,
who are longing for it realI he greatest of all religious
Peace on earth, good-will to
, ness, for it seems to cry out in the
night,-"Why can Jew and Gentile,
rich or poor, meet here on common
ground as brothers all, and not every,where!" "'Tis Sunday, come Stranger,
from whatever clime, professing what
,faith, and enter with me, within its
portals, decllcatecl to the brotherhood
of man." Note how joyous everyone
appears to be! 1'here is the Jew, the
negro, the Irish, the Italian, the Yan•
Jrne, aye, even the Turk; never a ells·
turbance, never even an ill-spoken
word, my honor for it, though they
,have been standing in the colcl without for two hours full. And this, for
'five sea~ons past!
Ah, the Sunday
'Bights; how I long for them!
Kind
and genial Coleman in the chair;
, sweet and sisterly Miss Crawford at
her faithful post; while there is Bro.
Gutterson at the piano. Observe his
'contented smile, for his soul Is in the
song,
A song of dogmatic creed?
Happily, no; for you are In Fo1'cl Hall
now and 'tis the brotherhood song,
The fatherhood of Goel Is in the very
air. And to think that Sunday even'lng theatre concerts once held charms
for me; oh, the horror of it.
The
·speaker has rendered his discourse;
-many haV\l, disagreed wit]} him, but
:mark you, not one discourteous act
,has been noted.
I am a Jew, you
know, and some of the clearest friends
I possess were, formerly rabid Jewhaters.
But such animosity cannot
exist in Ford Hall atmosphere; it
melts. And you may rest assured
that I In return have learned to love
my Christian neighbors, God bless
·them. Such is Christianity, Stranger,
as .Ford Hall expounds it.
llmittee o( Ford Hall Foiles.
11eblin appropriately headed
the letters from friends and
of the Ford Hall Meetings,
s Noyes now read.
,leman,
er Superior:
ti fth anniversary of the birth
tild, for which I, am one of•
erable Godfathers, I want to
te you and rejoice with yori
ttifying progress of the inrn to get free speech on the
und an expression of our
iith on tlie other, it will be
multiplying big, reasonable
1d spiritual forums, lilce the ,
meetings, They prove that
ke our common faith with~ or being demoralized by
IlCeS,
11 get your compensation in
,tnatlon and extension." ,
1ne the "prize letter," the
l l;y the committee from the
,tiers sent in to be printed
l1day Souvenir Program as
, typical of the Ford Hall
There is a lot to be read
i lines in this letter 'from a
Movement he so dearly
•sson is here for us all if
t the eyes and heart for it.
Members of the Baptist Social Union:
A parting word as regards your
,chairman at Ford Hail. Speaking as
a Jew on behalf of the Jews, I can
truthfully state with all sincerity,
that the name of George W. Coleman
is held with the tenderest affection;
while his loftiness of purpose, com•
bined with such genial personality,
has attained for him a popularity
among them, that cannot be likened
1mto another in our midst.
December 24, 1912.
Vraternity,
: what magic in its name;
harmed atmosphere sur'Tis Christmas Eve; I am
,se lines while the Christare being chanted in the
t reets:
"Peace on earth,'
) men." Ah, the dream of
111111! I arise sore at heart,
'indow of my rear room;
s Ford Hall: how, silent,
!Jilt hold,-how eloquent
" it Is, even in its mute'-
' IN MEMORIAM.
I
I
I
I-
I
'.
Daniel Sharp I•'ord: may his name
forever be linked with posterity, and
111s life's work an inspiration for oth-ers to go and do lllrnwise.
Peace to his memoty!
Samuel Sackmary,
45 Joy street, Boston.
5
THE BROAD, FREE VIEW',
(Written for The Birthday)
The broad, f1;ee view of earth and sky,
, Our human natures truly seek,
'Is gained along the path of life
That leads to some great mountain
peak.
'For as we make the upward climb,
The earth exp::incls in larger plan,
And all the circling worlds evolve
· The grander thought of God and
man.
Set free from narrow, crooked ways,
Old party walls and creecl::il bars,
With joy, we take the open road,
At night, we see the glorio1111 alars.
And he who gains the oletll', calm
height,
Where heaven's blue b/urner is unfurled,
May kindle with the torch of truth
, A beacon light for all the world.
WILLIAM W. LOCKE,
( Civic Service Ho11se, Boston.)
Rabbi Maurice H. Harrla, D. D.,
'I'emple Israel,
Harlem, New York,
"Five years is a short period in the
life of an inclivicluaJ, 11till shorter in
the life of an institution; yet within
that brief span Ford Hall as an uplift•
Ing centre has come to be known and
felt not only in Boiiton, the city of its
immediate locatl011, qut in localities
far and wide, 'I'hls people's forum,
among other things, has become an
unsectarian church, Its platform broad
enough to hospitably accommodate all
1 eligions.
Its eclectic creed includes
the self-denial of Buddha, the contagious enthusiasm of Mohammed, the
ethics of Confucius, the compassion of
Jesus, the clecalogne of Moses.
"It has also feel the artistic side of
the vast throngs it welcometl and contributed to their elevating pleasure.
H would be impossible to measure its
protective service, the sordid inclnl·
gence from which it may have drawn
many of its attendants by its inviting
and instructive program. In this re•
spect it has offered a model ot' what
almost, eVery church might be.
.
It Is the new worlr needed for this new
age. 'l'he fittest survives. Ford, Hall
will live because it deserves to live."
�6
FORD HALL FOLKS
Rev . .John Haynes Holmes,
Minister, Church of the :Messiah,
Naw York.
"I am indeed proud and happy to be
i?Jclucled In the great. army of your
friends and admirers who are banding
themselves together on this occasion
or the fifth anniversary of the Ford
Hall movement to testify to you their
affection for you personally and thelt
unbounded enthusiasm for the wonderful work which you have clone, and are
still doing for the cause of politicnl
democracy, industrial freedom and socialized religion, I salute you, sir, as
one of the wisest, bravest and most
comradely' leaders of this age of farYlsionecl' prophets and heroic crusaders,·"
Henry Abrahams,
Secretary,
Cigarmakers'
International Union, No. 97.
"A trade unionist. pure and simple,
who believes in the fatherhood of God
and the brotherhood of man, I desire
to express my appreciation of what
Ford Hall Is doing for the masses.
There,. on every Sunday evening, one
has the opportunity to listen to some
master mind, hear fine singing, beautiful music, and all without any cost of
any kind. · Here .Jew and Christian,
white and black, men and women from
all walks of life mingle.
Truly the
Christian is beginning to understand
Christianity, And It was left to the
Baptist Church to solve the problem of
why men do not go to church,
May
Goel speed yon and your able secretary in your noble mission!"
Rev. Charles Stelzle,
The Board of Home Missions of the
Presbyterian Church of America.
Bureau of Social Service Superintendent,
"Whether it knows It or ndt, the
Protestant Church, . to say nothing
about the ,Jewish Church and the Cath•
ollc Church, Is under a distinct obligation to you and those associated
with you for the splendid work that
you have done at Ford Hall during the
past five years. The men and women
or. labor are indebted to you. for you
have given .inspiration to their highest
hopes and aspirations through the
speakers invited to address the audieuces at Ford Hall. There has come
out of these open Fornm discussions a
better understanding of the problems
of the people. Most of all, the men
and women who have never had a
touch on the life of the workers are
Indebted to you for they haYe had
their own lives enlarged as they
caught the vision which has already
come to their humbler brothers and
sisters. I am personally Indebted to
you, for It was at Ford Hall that I
leanied more of the SJJll'it so much
needed In my own work,"
Rev, Edmund F'. i\ler
Of the Watrhman,
Boston, l\lass,
",'rhe old cry that
not take any inte1·es1
people· ls seldom hen
Ford Hall meetings b,
refutation of thn t ch:
Rev. Lymai1 Abbott, D. D.,
'l'he Outlook.
"You have proved in Dos ton as theSunday Clnb has proved In Chicago,
and as other lesser entei•prlses. have·
proved in other· J)arts of the ronntry,
that whenever the Chu!'ch forgets It•
self and thinks only of the service
·which it can re11der, It finds that the
people are interested In problems of
the religious life more jll'ofoundly than
in any other problem, and will flock In
great numbers to hea1· these problems
discussed In a vital way by vital men."
J, J, Fraser.
I am an agnostic,
Social Unl011 deservef
.its liberal s11lrlt in
meetings, Mr, G. Col
wire and the man he!
Rev. Harold :Marshall,
Melrose.
"For a hundred years we Unlversal11,ls have been proclaiming a bellet
that religion ls a human attribute;
but here In the cradle of liberal
Christianity we left it to you to conduct the flrst serious laboratory experiment to test the theory. Some
clay Ford Hall will be recognized as.
a spiritual Plymouth noel~."
Livy S. Richard,
Editor The Boston Common ..
"As I am about to leave Boston
after a study of the ])eople and 1 nstitntioils covering nearly three years, I
wnnt to ·JJut on record a brief estimate·
of one of the most exhilarating personalities I have met, and one of the·
most stimulating of the Institutions.
"To find in one person a well-baJ:-anced combination of physical virility,
mental prJwer, spiritual insight ancf
fine humai1 sympathy is to locate
what I conceive to be the best asset
that· exists. Boston Is mighty lucky
to have such an asset in George .vV.
Coleman.
"I put the person first because he
explains the Institution,
"In the I~ord Hall meetings you·
have answered the question-What Is.
to be the salvation of onr American·
. Democracy-Only by Its members com-Ing to know each other as brothers:
will that democracy survive."
Louis A. Chandler,
Boston.
These meetings stand for the high-est type of moral and educational Influences.
F'reda Rogolsky, .
115 Chamhers strec
"Ford Hall Is likP
ting too small lo hol
who come from nil
'turn~cl a way.
"Ford Hall could
the 'melting trnt,' wh
together, forgetting al
are brothers listening
better the conditions
world a better place t
next. generations.
.. "There arc many pl
the doors are hclnp; o
people, but they hn l'e
Mr. Coleman, like a
us In the hour of 11<
thing seemed dark."
"To tltink thnt we
the same platform a
ed In schools, a .Tewlsl
tlan minister, a Soci
woman and a .Jewish J
more than I can 11ncl
tbat the time Is cornln
recognize that we all
each other, and th:
l'rothers in spite ol' t
a.re of different rellgi,
Miss Mary Mason.
"One of the most pl,
connection with I.he l
ment Is the melting
prejudice, more esp,
Jew and Gentile.
"The Gentile In th
badly for an eye-ope1
to his brother .Jew. B
heard Harris, Wise,
Fleischer from the Fo1
light begins to dawn 11
"And those professo
ologlcal seminaries,
young preachers are
send out?
Not stanc
Ford Hall will have
laurels soo11,
Chnrcl
leadership may overta
Meanwhile, jnst wait
five years the lrnven
, 'I
�FORD HALL FOLKS
for they haVEl had
,cs enlarged as they
;ion which has already
humbler brothers and
personally indebted to
is at Ford Hall that I
ol' the spirit so much
own work."
lll
clibott,
n.
D.,
Rev. Edmund F. Merriam, D.D.,
Of the Watchman,
Boston, Mass.
".The old cry that the churches do
not take any interest in the working
people· is seldom heard now since the
Ford IIall meetings became a standing
refutation of that charge,"
.J . .J. li'raser.
I am an agnostic, and the Baptist
Social Union deserves great 1fraise for
.its liberal spirit in continuing the
meetings, Mr. G, Coleman is the live
wire and the man behind the gun.
·
iroved In Boston as thel1as proved in Chicago,
lesser enterprises. have
•r parts of the country,.
the Chm'ch forgets it1,s only of the service·
ender, it finds that the
erested In problems of
re more p1'ofoundly than
1·01.Jlem, and will flock in
to heat these problems
vital way by vital men."
I arshall,
red years we Unlversal11 p;·oclaimlng a belief,
is a human att\'ibute;
the crndle of liberal
·e left it to you to conserious laboratory ex,~st the theory. Some
I will be recognized as.
·month Roel~."
rd,
Boston Common ..
n bout to leave Boston
ot' the people and lnstl·
1g· nearly three years, I
1 record a brief estimate,
most exhilarating 11er1ve met, and one of the·
i11g of the institutions.
one person a well-bal~
t ion of physical virility,
spiritual insight. and'
Hympathy is to locate
ve to be the best asset
loston is mighty lucky
n n asset In George .W.
p1,rson first because he·
nst!tution.
,rd Hall meetings you:
l the question-What is,
vation of our American·
11 ly by its members co~1,,nch other as brothers:
1ocracy survive."
i11gs stand for the hlgh'oral and educational in-
.Freda Rogolsky,
115 Cham hers street, Boston.
"Ford Hall is like om· hai·bor, getting too small to hold all the people
who ... come fl'om all parts and are
turned a way,
"Ford Hall could be compared to
the 'melting pot,' where we all come
together, forgetting all ])rejudices, and
are brothers listening to how we may
l.JEJtter the conditions and make this
world a better place to live in for our
next generations.
.. "There are m'any places now where
the doors are being o])ened to all the
])eople, but they have no Mr. Coleman.
l\fr. Coleman, like a compass, guided
us in the hour of need when everything seemed dark."
"To think that we can hear from
the same platform a woman interested in schools, a .Jewish Rabbi, a Christian minister, a Socialist, a Chinese
woman and a .Jewish philanthropist, is
more than I can understand. I feel
that the time ls coming when we sha11
recognize that we all have to llve for
each other, and that we are all
l•rothers in spite ot' the fact that we
are of dlft'eren t religions."
Miss Mary Mason.
"One of the most pleasing results in
connection with the Ford Hall movement ls the melting away of racial
prejudice, more especla1ly between
,Tew and Gentile.
'"l'he Gentile in the main suffers
badly for an eye-opener with regard
to his brother .Jew. But when he has
heard Hanis,. Wise, Schulman and
Fleischer from the Ford Hall platform
light begins to dawn upon him.
"And those professors from the the•
ologlcal seminaries, what kind or
· young preachers are they going to
send out?
Not stand-])atters, surely.
Ford Hall will have to look to her
laurels soon.
Churches under this
leadership may overtake and pass her.
Meanwhile, just wait and see. Within
five years the leaven of Ford Ha11's
7
])rogresslve thought wlll have leavened the whole lump of orthodox religions thinking In Boston town and
far beyond."
Pres, David Starr .Jordan,
Stanford University, Callfornia.
"As one interested in the work at
I•'ord Hall and as one. who has had the
exciting pleasure of addressing the
p(~o])le there, I send a word of congratulation and good will. I am deeply
impressed with good which can be
done in institutions like this in which
men who have a mission of some kind
are brought in contact with the people, and, peop'e have opportnnity
freely to talk back."
Prof. Charles P, Fagnani, D. D.,
Union Theological Seminary, New
York.
"Like father like child. How· could
I<'ord Hall be anything but fine, democ1:atic, inspiring and Chrlstia11 (in the
true sense of that ninch abused word)
when it has George vV. Coleman for Its
a.Im.us vater I 'I'he greatest life work
e,mceivable, a privilege reserved only
fo1· a few, is that of being the founder
ot a great institution, of incarnating
cne's highest ideals and aspirations
and edeavors in the enduring organhim of a social strncture which will go
on flourishing when the heart and
l•rain that gave it birth have graduated into spheres of higher service still.''
Russell B, Kingman,
New York City,
"In the Ford Hall meetings you have
brought me my religion, for up to the
time I had the good fortune to know
this movement, I must frankly confess
a backsliding tendency, and now that
I nm launched in a new field, I so miss
Forrl Hall that I am prompted to plant.
Rimllar seed in this community. Before a year expires I believe you will
hear of a similar movement in Newark, New .Jersey, Moreover if I have
111y way I am going to call the movement Ford Hall meetings,
"I never believed it possible to love
in such a personal sense every mem·
her of an aggregation of people."
Hev. Charles C, Earle, D.D.,
Ruggles Street Baptist Church.
"Like .John, the Baptist, of the llrst
century and Martin Luther of the sixteenth, you have been in the vanguard
o1 the great awakening which Is of
chief importance in modern times.
. . . Your task is comparable to
t11at of Moses or Lincoln, leading the
y;ay to the Promised Land of Emancipation from Social Bondage."
/
�I'
r:
,,,
·I
I
FORD 1!:\LL FOLKS
you have accomplished this seeming
miracle full tes-tilllony is bol'lle in this
multitude of astonishing letters. What
may be the future influence of this
movement, which won have inaugurated, U]Jon society at large no one can
know. It might be well If the great
captains of material resources of om·
times could elllulate your example and
establish 1.0,000 such groups tomorrow
throughout the world.
vVe, however, are chiefly concerned
tonight to turn over to you this recorrl
of what you have accomplished for us
v,1i'd with us here In these five years-.
We belie?e in you ai1d youi' lende1'ship; we make you the ex]lonent of
our choicest and highest hopes; we
even believe that should you be called
upon to make the· supi'eme sacrifice
for the success of this work and the
spiritual evolution of humanity, you
would gladly make It, ·so we bring
here and present to you tonight, :Mr.
Coleman, this carefully 11repared vol•
ume which contains the best we have
to glve,-our purest thoughts, In a
truest sense, a gift of ourselves, and
we ask you to accept and cherish it
aP.' an historical
monument of the
work which you have begun and a lllemorial of ~ur highest esteen and
affection. It is a pledge of the blood
brotherhood which you have inspired
us to feel in our hearts and to manifest in our lives.
In the name of Daniel Sharp Ford,
and for the Ford Hall Folks, and all
sympathizers with the Ford Hall
movement. I give you this book. (Applause.)
IJlg, I would clasp it to my heart as
an expression of my npp1·ec!atlon of.
what you have brought to me in tl!ese
lwautiful sentiments.
·
I do want to s-ay this much: that
in ·aclditlon to thanking so many In
the Social Union and out of the Social
Union for the help they have given,
and for what they have contributed
in making these meetings possible, I
thank God from the bottom of my
h1.mrt, when J stop to think of how
many hundreds of times, on hui1drecls
of occasions, our work might have all
gone for naught because of obstructions and difficulties and hindrances,
over which no one of us could pos;sibly have had any control whatever.
,Working as ha!'d as -we might, with
all the patience and skill that we could
command, with all the love and sympnthy In our hearts, we might stl!I
liave blundered 'so fearfully as to
have made it impossible for us to continue this unique work. 80 I say from
my heart, and I know from many of
your hearts that we thank Goel that
we have been permitted during these
five years to carry on this work,
This has• been a place, literally,
where the Ilon and the lamb could
Ile down together without clanger of
being eaten up.
(Applause.)
The
,Jew and the Gentile, the Catholic and
the Protestant, the believer and the
unbe!lever, the rich and the poor, the
conservative and the radical, men and
women all representing our entire
community life, have been privileged
tu come together here every Sunday
1iight and discuss the· most vital things
that concern the hmmm mind ancl the
human heart. And yet, as you all
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BY MR.
know, !n all these five years, with· the
COLEMAN.
hall crowded full, with sometimes the
most Intense interest prevailing, never
Before I speak a word for myself 011ce, as the Chairman of these meetram going to say a few words for the Ji1gs, have I been obliged to use even
speaker of the evening. I waS' pre- AS much as a gavel to maintain order.
pared not to say anything, In order to
(Applnnse.)
give him an opportunity, but Miss
There is a great deal in my heart
Crawford has JJrovided a very happy
that I would l!ke to say to you but I
way out of !t, and that ls that we ask will not detain you in order to do so
Dr. Gifford to be our special S]Jeaker, You know me well enoue-h (laughter
on the subject that he hacl selected and applause) to know that I do not.
for this evening, on our last S'unday· fake ail that has been said about me
night in the season-the S'econcl week
literally (laughter), but you know me
in April. I !mow he has a splendid
,veil enough to know, also that I do
mes·sage for you.
take it, full measure and running
· l\Ir. Galjup and friends: If I couhl
over, as an expression of the love ancl
escape this moment I think I would
good will of your hearts. (Applause.)
be willing to go with Sheriff Quinn
No gift that you could have made
over to Charles Street ,Jail. (Laugh
to me of silver or gold, clone with the
ter.) The hour is so late that I will best workmanshiJJ; nothing studded
not attempt to tell yon anything like with the most precious gems, coulrl
11ihat is in my heart. I wonlcl simply have stood in comparison at all with
say,• this: If that book were not so what Is in· these letters and In the
I',•
I
beautif
wish!n1
short '
away a
(La11gh
going t
minute
them f
bring
strengt
we go
have I'·
snld, \'
these l
possib!,
sample
yon wo
to get :
hoolc !I
portuni"
l\lrs. C
you all
applam
hlb!tioi;
that n!
Wlil CO)
· other E
Then ,,
yon lo
than ye
ahle to
Imm
prec!att
to me i
bt'ginni
spienrli1
ford hn,
busy bt
hf.Bides
engage
been al
have cl1
ford hn
done BO
I hail n
ingen11i1
meant,
than Rll
It al
necessri.
flllr "'01
has to I
iu the I
to me,
usefn!, r
Mr. Rol
newspaJ
that, hr
that lhE
ly Mr. J
lnr; to
out (IIJJJ
and als
lig!ous 1
ment co
public c
the clall
�t
+
,
~,
,
:.·.
~
Pf'
FORD HALL FOLKS
J11ld clasp it to my heart as
ssion of my apprncla'tiou of.
lmve brought to me in Hlese
sentiments.
·
·ant lo say this much: that
Dll to thanking so many in
I llnion and out of the Social
r the help they have given,
\\'hat they have contributed
g these meetings possible, I
:id from lhe bottom of my
ll'll I stop to think or' how
1clrnds of times, on hm1dreds
)llS, Olli' work might have all
naught because of obstrucdifflculties and hindrances,
·h no one of us could poss had any control whateve1'.
as hard as -we might, with
ience nnd skill that we could
with all 'the Jove and symom hearts, we might still
l!llered · so fearfully as to
e it impossible for us to conunique work. flo I say from
and I know from many of
ts that we thanlc God that
ieen permitted during these
to cany on this work.
1;,: been a place, literally,
, lion and the Iamb could
together without danger of
Pl!
llP,
(Applause.)
The
IH1 Genti~e, the Catholic and
;tant, the believer and the'
, the rich and the poor, the
n, and the radical, men and
I representing 011r entire
life, have been privileged
Dgether. here every Sunday·
l isc11ss tl\e· most vital things
l'll the lrnmnn mind and the
art. And yet, as you all
II these five years, with· tho
('d full, with sometimeB the~
ale interest prevailing, never
1(, Chail'man or these meetI heen obliged to use even
; a gavel to maintain order.
a great deal in my heart
Id like lo Bay to you b11t I
Iain yoll in order to do so.
me well enoue-11 (laughter
se) to luiow that I do not
.it has been said about me
((\ghter), but you lrnow me
h lo know, also that I do
11! measure and running
Hxpresslon of the love and
,r yonr hearts. (Applause,)
that yon could have made
Iyer or gold, clone with the
llanship; nothing stndclecl
11ost prnclous gems, coulrl
in comparison at all with
these letters and in the.
beautiful book. I have almost been created among· church people by two
wishing that I might be sick for a or three friendly religious papers that
short time .in order that I could go saved the day when, as you know
many a time this worJc hung in th~
away and have a chance to read them.
(Laughter and applaus'e,) But I am halance,
I must s·ay one more word
going to read them, inch by Inch, and
(laughter), and that is this:
Alminute by minute, and· then re-read
them for the blessing that they will tilough, perhaps, my chief struggles
bring to my own heart, and the in the beginning were with my own
strength that they will bring to me as brethren of the Baptist Social Union,
we go on with this work. And as I nevertheless, I want to say to them,
have read them, one by one, I have and I want to say it in your presence,
said, Vfell, I wish you all could read tl!at I am more than ever proud and
these letters; but · that · may not be happy to be a Baptist because of what
possible; you have heard splendid they have done during these five years
samples of them here tonight. I think and in standing by these meetings<,.
you would like to get. an opportunity You must remember that it was en-·
to get a little clos·er inspection of the tl!'ely a unique work-never heard of
book than you will tave time and op- before-a clenomin;:ttional church with
itf! limitations, supporting·, cherishing
portunity for tonight, and I hope, wltil
l'virs. Coleman's permission, to invite extending a great work, universal i~
you all up to the house (laughter and its appeal. 'I'he church literally spending itself, its money, Its time, its
applause), and have the book on exhibition, and we will keep open house energy, its love in service of the comthat night and the Ford Hall Folks munity and never once thinking of Itwill come and' go, according to their self. It has' never been clone before,
other engagements for the evening·. that I know of. (Prolonged applause.)
'l'hen will be given an opportunity to And when you remember that these·
you to examine the book more closely men ln the Social Union, all of them
than you have been able or will be laymen, business men, most of them
ahle to do this evening, (Applause.)
deacons and superintendents in the·
I must say one word In a way of ap- Church a majority of them -of middle
preciation of the help that has come age, or past middle age; when you
to me In all this work from the very think that they had the patience and
beginning, after the first series, in the gentleness and trust and confidence
splendid assistance which Miss Crnw- ' and good will to let me go ahead with
ford has rendered, (Applause.) As a this thing when I could not promisebusy business man, with many things them a~ all what it was going to be,
b€sides this• outside of my business to for I did not know myself, you will
engage my attention, it would have understand that they really deserve a
been absolutely impossible for me to very great deal of the credit on this,
have done the work that Miss Craw- our Fifth Anniversary, (Applause.)
And just let me say in closing; yes,
ford has done,
I never could have
do
not
wonder
you
laugh.
done some of the work half as well If · I
I had all the time In the world! Her (Laughter.) But this Is really and
ingenuity, energy and faithfulness has truly the closing, (Laughter.)
meant, as the resolutions said, more
[It was 10 o'clock by this time and
we ha(] not even got to the speaker
than any of us can know,
It always• happens, and It must or the evening,l
necessarily Ile so, I suppose, that in
I have had a good many Je~sons in·
any work, some one particular person my life to the effect that "It is more
has to be rather, more than the rest
blessed to give than to receive." ·well,
in the lime light, and that has falle~ you may say I am not in a position to
(Laughto me, but there are others just as preach thnt gospel tonight,
useful, and when I think of the ushers, ter.) -But If there had been no such
Mr. Roberts, llfr. Gutterson and the expression as this superb book reprenewspaper men-It is literally true sents, and these beautiful testimonials
that, had it not been for the work represent; if nothing of that sort had
that the newspaper men did, especial- come to me this evening; If I only had •
ly Mr. Philpott of the Globe-I am go•
the support of the work that has been
ing to mention him and single him done in the last five years, as I have
out (applau'se)-in the very beginning, looked into your faces Sunday night .
and also the work done by the re- after Sunday night, I would say to
ligious papers in this city, this move- you frankly, that in all my life, in all ·
ment could not have lived .. It was the the church work that I have been
public opinion created in the city by thro11gh (and I worked from one
the dally press, and the good opinion branch to another, all the way up),
,,
�•
12
FORD HALL FO.LKS
nothhlfo that I have ever done, or tried
to -do, that was altruistic In Its principle, or was brotherly In Its motives,
lrns brought .me so much satis•factlon
and jor and contentment as has what
J ha1·e tried to do here In connection
with these meetings, And I want to
recommend, from my own experience,
that no matter how busy you are, no
matter how driven you are, no matter
Ill
I
what other responslbilltles you have,
It PAYS, It PAYS, it PAYS, every
time, money aside, even the· good wlll
and respect and regard of those whom
yon have been accustomed·' to· associate ,vith aside, and ,vho do not at
all understand what you are struggling for. The satisfaction of such
service as this is like unto nothing
else on the face of the earth.
MR, COLEMAN
DEDICATORY.
This book is the unique tribute of a
nrnltitude to one man, as well as an
hlstorica'J monument to a marvelous
viol'k. Even those who have contrlb•
uted to this extraordlnal'y recorc(
";hile prophes'ying of the future o( the
I~ord Hall. meetings and of their leader, George vVilliam Coleman, are not
wholly competent to predict how
great. will be the influence of this
work and this man on the social
evolution that is taking 1Jlace. The
study of the· letters· which make up
this collection will reveal to keen
critics, historians and philosophers at
soine futul'e pei'lod how gl'eat a con-tribution has been made to the future
political state, and a )rnrer, better
social fabric, by this' institution under
the inspil'ation and direction of a
great leader.
To us who assist in this worl{ and
help to shape this record, nothing appears more clear than that the Ford
Hall meetings typify the long her-
aided dream of a true brotherhood of
man, and that our beloved leader was
chosen as the prophets of old, to
bring this work to pass. We believe
its Inspiration wlll endure and extend
in some form to all lands and to all
people. Herein wlll be discove11ed, in
this unexampled collection of letters,
the fervent hope, the irresistible
aspiration of men and women of every
race and· c1'eed, yearning towards that
success in living and that unity of belief and action which, like a sacred
beacon, have flamed in the heart and
guided the will of our friend, brother
and devoted way-shower, George
William Colemah.
The letters from . a multitude of
friends and the printed tributes from
the periodical press best tell the story
of. all time of the work and the ·man:
We give and deaicate this record
to the good of all hunianit'y, with deep
affection for the recipient; in whose
possession \ve desire it shall alwa·ys ·
remain as a monument· to his fidelity :
and a perpetual testiinonlaJ to our
good will arid ·farth )n the fofore.
~81
·'
./
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection 1885-2011 (MS114)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Meyers, Arthur S.
Description
An account of the resource
The collection contains 9 boxes of Arthur S. Meyers' research files related to his book, <em>Democracy in the Making: the Open Forum Movement</em>. The book, published in 2012, chronicles the history of the nationwide open forum movement, including the role of the Ford Hall Forum. The collection contains photocopies of letters, articles, and programs related to open forums and the movement’s proponents such as George W. Coleman and Mary Caroline Crawford. <br /><br />A <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/researchguides/12/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">finding aid</a> is available which describes and inventories this collection. Digital files are available at: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/</a>
Language
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English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil society -- United States -- History
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Crawford, Mary Caroline
Democracy -- United States -- History
Meyers, Arthur S
Political culture -- United States -- History
Political participation -- United States -- History
Relation
A related resource
See also, the Ford Hall Forum Collection (MS113), Suffolk University
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ms-0204
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Folks newsletter, vol. 1, no. 10, 03/02/1913
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1913
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Featured: Dr. J. A. McDonald
Source
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Meyers Open Forum Collection, 1885-2011 (MS114)
MS 114, Folder: 53
Type
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Text
Documents
Format
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PDF
Language
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English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
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Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
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<p>View the <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/-/media/suffolk/documents/about/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections/ms114_findingaid_pdftxt.pdf?la=en&hash=486EEBE8C7ED9B1E7B1E8400F934ED64828945AC">finding aid to the Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection (MS 114)</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p></p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/c741721126617d1d136ce3747c542f91.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=vTCpx00%7EkC6b5Km-5tiQOjxq0Nr7epTgKr-rIPdMASXHesenLBxJtwaktuTWSudUwt9SVKbYHstvd-OGeJdqEHUpK6GAtuUs6LpYPtqydDAx9DT38ya8JGlry7tJNrk3V%7Eoc8BiZB0dZUKN9tHYeRxPe6VvlXGBj9tr2nue-CV-OZGP1-yZNDITCb3OqGkqKK7IT1egU5SeWx-oq8d7kyesQ-rSsI63ULZhxukpsO2oS6Kuz6vXGiKrnOkGPJN%7EFg5%7E1jssV3gA7%7EHJ6cRI07Kr6tZqDurGzUg4SVFTioSYcJ%7EfoyE7nGgUISFOU2BFcvJoNUsu9OrdWmkqPzoT3uw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
5e53d6474a04b337c7eb7f0b52550706
PDF Text
Text
',
I
I
I
I
V
I
•
Jforb 'Hall Jfolhs
Vol.
I,
No.
II.
March 9, 1913.
WHAT OF OUR FUTURE?
'.
I
l
I.'
Price Ten Cents
acquaintanceship,
It developed the
Idea and provided the material for the
Line Ushers. It engineered the plans
'for the birthday celebration,
It has
suggested the Idea of an accumulating
fund for our work and has made a
little beginning with It already,
It
has inaugurated and successfully published a weekly magazine which has
paid Its own way from the start.
Surely° a little company· of people
who could do all this in a few months
will find a great deal more to' do that
Is helpful and promising. This little
group of fifty or sixty should grow to
two or three hundred in time. With
such a force to co-operate what
couldn't we do? As things are now, we
nieet only on Sundays,
Why not a
mid-week gathering of some sort?
What shall its nature be? The Ford
Hall Folks will dig that out.
This magazine can be greatly · extended In circulation and enhanced In
value.
With our contributions we
might do some things ·that we would
very much like to do and which we
naturally could not permit any one
else to pay for.
Let us ·be dreaming about our future.
Some one has said that there Is enough
executive ability in the race to make
into reality every dream of which our
Imaginations are capable,
The only
question Is whether lb Is worth while.
Dream a dream that Is worth it and
some one will come along who will
·build It into ·real life. What we 'have
now -at Ford Hall was a dream before
it became a reality.
What we are
going to have at Ford Hall for the
next five years is somebody's dream
right now. Are you doing your share
of the dreaming? Why not? It helps.
Not much was said at our .Fifth Anniversary about the future of the Ford
Hall Meetings except those fine words
of President Bentley assuring · us of
the continued support and interest of
the Baptist Social Union, But nearly
everything that was said and done
took it for, granted• that there was to
be a fliture fo1' this ·woi:k, and some
very decided hints were dropped that
might lead one -to expect a good deal
of that future. 'l'his nutch of the future is already assured judging by the
activities of the present.
The idea
that Ford Hall stands for wilJ find
ready acceptance in all parts of the
country, and similar meetings will
greatly multiply, Our revival of the
Socratic, method as applied to a lar,ge
popular audience will be duplicated in
many church assemblies. These things
seem to be already assttred; it only requires -time for their wider extension.
, Just now, within the next •month, I
have accepted invitations to tell the
factE, and the meaning of the Ford
Hall Movement in four different states,
Pittsfield, Mass., Manchester, N. H.;
Buffalo, N. Y., and Philadelphia,
Pa,
In ·the fhst · two instances, it
is in connection with the Y. M. 0, A,;
In Buffalo, it ls In relation to the advertising men of the city, and In Philadelphia It is before the Presbyterian
Social Union, a ·body something like
the Baptist Social Union, ·and representing all the 1Presbyterian churches
of· the metropolitan area.
All these
.opportunities have been pressed upon
•me, Indicating how widely the knowl!ldge of the Ford Hall Meetings has
been extended and how the interest Is
springing lip of its own accord in various places at the same time.
·. But there Is another side to our future which is even more Interesting to
·us than the extension of our work
;abroad and that is the intensive deNEXT SUNDAY'S SPEAKER,
velopment of our work right here at
•home. Here, again, we are quite fortuWilliam Hard, of New York, on "The
·nate In being able to find in the pres- State and the Fatherless Child," Is
·ent, a very safe gauge for measuring our program for next Sunday,
No
the future.
more vital question than this Is now
Our little organization, The Ford before our people. Come and hear the
.Hall Folks, has already demonstrated mat~r talked out. Mrs. Coleman will
Its usefulness.
It has given us our preside In the absence of her husband,
·first opportt111lt.Y tP Ct)ltiYfltll J:)llf.liHJnRI om· beloved Jeade1·.
·
Ir~~
�2
FORD HALL FQLKS
DISIIOP WILLlAlllS.
Rev. Charles D. Williams, D. D.,
Bishop of Detroit, Michigan.
"Please accept my most sincere and
hearty congratulations upon the conclusion of your five years' work in the
Ford Hall movement. It ls, in my estimation, one of the significant movements of the day, Your are render-·
Ing a signal, most needed and most
valuable service to the deepest needs
of the day, The essential spirit of the
new social consciousness· and conscience is distinctly and fundamental-·
ly religious in the truest and deepest
sense of that word.
You are interpreting that religious spirit to many,
yes, multitudes, who have it and do
not recognize its religious nature, and
you are giving to movements that
would otherwise become purely materialistic a spiritual motive and in•
splration. You are helping to awaken
the church to her mission and task,
to· make herself big and hospitable
enough to be a home for the characteristic social religion of the day, and
you are making that religion conscious of its need of a spiritual home
In the church. God bless you in your
noble endeavor."
Prof. Richard M. Vaughan,
Newton Theological Institute,
Newton Centre, Mass.
"It is most important that all men
of good will should understand each
othe1\ You have enabled them to see
eye to eye, To you belongs the honor
of a pioneer."
Chas. H. Watson,
Belmont, Mass,
"The meetings are . revelations of
practical sympathy and brotherliness.
They bravely handle the present in•
equalities In our social conditions and
tile resentfulness and bitterness they
provoke."
D11, J, A, l\IACDONALD,
WAR AND THE HUM~N BREED.
(Address of Dr. J, A. Macdonald of
Toronto at the Ford Hall Meeting, March' 2, 1913.)
,Your chairman told me that the
t~eme upon which I should speak to·
mght ought to be vital and of human
interest-some such words · as these
he used, I tried to think up what
would be vital and of human interest
to that Ford Hall crowd he had talked
so much to me about in Ontario and
in Dallas. (Laughter,) I thought of
the trade agreement between Canada
and the United States, but that would
not be vital because the government
of the Dominion of Canada says it is
dead, I may not agree with the government. I may thlnlr It is very vital
today and is going to be more vital
in days to come. (Applause.) But as
I am · away from Canada, I must be
Joyal to the government-even if it Is
our tory government. So I cannot say
that reciprocity Is vital and of human
interest. It Is dead.
In my perplexity some dlspatche1:1
came In. One came In from Ottawa,
another from your side of the linefrom the United StateS', and one came
from Great Britain; and they all had
to do with the same theme. They all
talked about war.
The Minister of the Dominion of
Canada made a great speech and
called for more money to spend on
the militia for Canada, and said somet!Iing Jllrn this: that the soldiers and
the missionary must go hand In hand.
To me that ls not a happy combination. (Laughte1'.) The second gentleman, whom I will not name, but
whose name would be known to you
in Boston, had said something about
the importance of tile army, and the
influence of tl~~ 11,rmy- 01,1, ~ ;i, uatiQil,
· The thl.rl! man was a 11101
House of LordS' and he ou:
about wars because he w
as many wars as any 11
House of Lords.
Lord I
just as emµhatlc as eitl
other two. I began to thh
'that these. men-they are
all seemed to think that w
nation great. Now I know
poor. (APPiause.) It haf
our Dominion poor yet I
have'not had any. We are
few countries in this wor
importance that has no ,
no war page on our hist<
war debt to be paid by ,
(Applause.) Please, God, ,
have.
I know the history of ye
and I know that over 68
over 70 per cent., of all ti
of this republic goes no"
times to pay war debts an
taln your armaments. I I
I know It is burdensome.
about Great Britain. I Jrno
common people of Britain
pay the war taxes, to pay
est of their war debtS'. I
this year Britain will pay $
for her army and her navy ,
Is no war, and I know hov
taxed-many of them taxed
that they are burdened fo1
I know from what little
we have had in our Domlnio
bitter rebellion among the
the West, and when we E
contingents to South Afrlc1
that there was fraud and bo«
dishonesty of all sorts In <
with these things. I know
tory. I know that when yo111
on there was dishonesty v
and boodling. I know that I
uniforms sent out for the
S'oldlers to wear, that wen
food sent that was . rotten.
that the brave sons of the r
the South suffered htdeousli
·or dishonesty in trade-the
common business dishonest
of the men who stayed at
business? I know what you·
among other things, But wl
its effect? SuppoS'e it Is e:
suppose war debts are hea
pose all this. Is It not a 1
. thing for race development?
biology assert it? Is It not
it ls the S'truggle for exist«
makes the individual bravi
not true that It Is the su
the fittest that makes· the ra
We have been taught the gre
.,
\
�:/
,KS
I
. J, A, l\IACDONALD,
ID THE HUMAN BREED,
of Dr. J. A. Macdonald of
> at the Ford Hall Meet9, March 2, 1913.)
airman told me that the
n which I should spealr to·
t to be vital and of human
,ime such words as these
I tried to think up what
·ital and of human interest
11 Hall crowd he had talked
i me about in Ontario and
(Laughter.) I thought of
1greement between Canada
ited States, but that would
.I because the government
inion of Canada says it ls
ty not agree with the govmay think it ls very vital
is going to be more vital
:ome. {Applause.) But as
from Canada, I must be
government-even if It is
.'ernment. So I cannot say
city Is vital and of human
is dead.
"rplexlty some dispatches
lne came in from Ottawa,
m your side of the linetited State"s, and one came
Britain; and they a\l had
he same theme. They all
t war.
ster of the Dominion of
de a great speech and
nore money to spend on.
or Canada, and said some•
his: that the soldiers and
iry must go hand In hand.
is not a happy comblna;hter.) The second genim I will not name, but
l would be known to you
iiad said something about
nee of the army, and the
the iirmy on, 11, natloll, ·
.The thlrct man was a member of the evolution. Does it not hold for the
House of Lords and he ought to know ·nation?
about wars because he was In about
I began to look through hlsto1•y, I
as many wars as any man in the counted over all the great empires of
House ot Lords.
Lord Roberts was the past; all gone; everyone of them
just as emphatic as either of the gone except the one great empire that
other two, I began to think how It is was not a war nation, Greece, Rome,
that the.se men-they are not fools- all gone! Rome, that was once masall seemed to thinlr that war makes a . ter of the world, sitting on her seven
nation great. Now I know it makes It hills, swinging her sceptre over the
poor. {App~a,uae.) It has not made world, nothing but a record in his· our Domlnlo11 poor yet because we tory!
I aslr why?
China rising
have not haq any. We are one of the across the Pacific, the only empire
few countries in, this world of some with no great war history survived,
importance that has no war record, and today presents man for man and
no war page p11 our history, and no capacity and power· equal to the best
war debt to· bl) paid by our people. Anglo-Saxon breed. {Applause.) And
{Applause.) Please, God, we may not I remember that little Japan with no
have.
war history at all, who was more than
I know the history of your country 250 years out of sight; little Japan
and I lcnow tllat over 68 per cent., when she went up against a great war
over 70 per cent., of all the revenue nation, Russia, showed herself so
of this republic· goes now In peace powerful that the world was stagWhy? I ask.
times to pay war· debts and to main- gered with wonder.
tain your armaments. I know that. Why? I began to reflect on the problem raised by these experts In miliI know it is burdensome.
I know
about Great Britain. I know how the tary art.
common people of BrHaln sweat to
And then I went back to Rome. I
pay the war taxes, to pay the inter- recalled my history of Rome.
The
est of their war debts. I know that decline and the fall of the Roman Emthis year Britain will pay $400,000 000 pire and the causes that led to it.
for her army and 1Ier navy when there I !mow what the militarists said. I
is· no war, and I !mow how they, are know that they said that Rome fell
taxed-many of them taxed too much, because Rome ceased to be a warlike
that they are bui·qened for llfe.
nation; because the Romans gave
I know from what little experience thems'elves up to luxury and ease; but
•
we have had in otu· Dominion with the I asked why did they give themselvei:I
bitter rebellion among the people in up to luxury and ease? There was a
the West, and when we sent three day when to be a· Roman was greater
contingents to South Africa,, I know than to be a king; There was a time
that there was fraud and boodling and when the true Roman sacrificed himdishonesty of all sorts in connection self for Rome's sake. There was a
with these things. I Jm·ow · your his- time when no Roman was satisfied
would
tory. I !mow that when your war was with his luxury and ease, but Caesar
on there was dishonesty, and fraud have followed in the wars of
But Rome
and boodling. I lmow that there were and the rest of them,
ceaS'ed
all that.
uniforms sent out for the American self up from luxury, andRome gave itto
I ask, why?
S'oldiers to wear that were shoddy,
food sent that was rotten. I know Why?
And then I read the record. Out
that the brave sons of the North and
the South suffereq hideously because of every thousand strong Romans·or dishonesty in trade-the ordinary out of every thousand strong Romans,
common business dishonesty. What 800 fell in war; out of every thouof the men who stayed at home-in sand weaklings, 95 ·per cent. survived.
business? I know what your war did Eighty per cent. of the strong falling
among other things, But what about In war, 95 per cent. of those who
Its effect? Suppose it is expensive;
could not stand the strain and stress
suppose war debts are heavy; sup- -95 per cent. of the weaklings lived.
pose all this. Is It not a necessary What happened? I thought of my
. thing for race development? Does not biology, Like father like son. Like
biology assert it? Is it not true that seed lllrn harvest. Blood tells. If
it Is the S'truggle for existence that the Romans killed off 80 per cent. of
makes the Individual brave? rs it her strong men, her self-devoted men,
not true that It is the survival ·of and if it allowed 95 per cent. of her
the fittest that maims the race great? · cowards, her weaklings, to live, what
We have been taught the great law of ,..happened? Those who survived bred
�"
FORD J!ALL FOLKS
the new generation of Romans, and
like father like son, like seed like harvest. The Roman women with all the
Roman blood in their veins bred a
new generation of Romans from the
slaves, from the wealcllngs, with what
reS'ult?
The combination of the
Roman aristocracy and the slaves
produced what? What history says:
fops and dandles. These fops and
dandies gave themselves up to luxury
and . ease, and when the husky 111011
from the mountains came down there
were none ready to deny themselves,
to sacrifice themselves< for Rome's
salrn, The old Rome was gone.
What about France? France was
once in the very forefront of the great
nations of the world. Napoleon made
her feared; made her enemies trem- ,
ble by what happened?
Napoleon
toolt the men in the strength , and
pride of their young manhood, and
, when they were cut off he. took the
old men and then he took the boys.
Napoleon said a boy could stop a bullet. of the Russian as well as a man,
and the flower of France's citizenship
was marched off-away from Paris
and the provinces, away, to Moscow,
and waS' sown on waste lands before
it came to seed. With .what result?
'fhat France's pride was humbled.
Frahces' army was weakened-three
or four times they had to ·1ower the
standard for admission of men to the
army because they had wiped off
1heir strong, their virile, their heroic.
And what,about Great Britain, with
her history, her war history: that made
her proud and spoken of with reverence the world over?
I was taught It and so were some or
you.· We speak of Crimea, of ·waterloo, of India, of EJgypt, and of the wars
that brought power to the British
army and of the great glory that came
to Britain and the Elmplre. Well, what
happened? What says biology? What
is the output? What is the result?
What do you see today? Many of you
know and have seen It. You go through
London,
Manchester,
Birmingham,
through Liverpool, through Glasgow,
through Eldinburgh, and you see wnat?
You are faced with the multitude of
the unfit. You are surprised.
I wae
surprised, going back after five generations of my breed living in this country• on this side of the water, going
back five generations to find what? Not
a man of the giant mould I have been
taught to believe marked the men w110
made up the army of Britain. I went
through the cities and there saw the
result of two things. Their damnable
land laws, to begin with.
Damnable
Is a good word-ls the fit word (Ap,
plause)-crowded the people from the
land Into the cities and so gave them
no chance whatever of the land that
God made for the people. (Applause.)
God made the land for, the people.
'l'he l)eople were crowded off the land
Into the cities and made to live In the
most unsanitary conditions, neglected,
despised, with what result?
You saw It In their faces; faces with
little hope, many a face was ri'a1?0W
on account of the outlook, weakened,
shriveled, niarked unmistakably with
disease; and I ask why? I remember
what Kipling wrote in his glorification, "Lord, God, we paid In full."
Very good. But If you .feed your very
hest to the sharks and the gulls again
biology comes in and asks who are
going to ·breed the generation tb come.
Sharks and gulls are sharks and gulls
after you have feel them your best. And
again and again the physical standard
of the soldiers from Elnglancl were lowered to keep the ranks full.
·worse
than even in Elnglancl is the north
country.
Scotland has had a reputation the
world over for the physique of her
men, especially men of the north. The
law of evolution holds in -the north, in
the highland h!lls, for life there has
been hard all through the centuriesit was hard.
'!'hey had to fight fm•
their life and the weaklings died in
infancy, therefore they bred a race of.
men of giant mould. Therefore when
the call came for war, regiment after
regl111ei1t marched otit, every man six
feet, most of them more.
(After describing the former great
regiments of Scotch Highlanders,
every member of which had to be at
least six feet in height, the speaker
said that the breeding places of -thos,3
regiments have now become shooting
preserves for noblemen and American
millionaires, and the natives now are
"little runts" and merely caddies or
lackeys of ,the sportsmen.
:Most of the virile' ,Scotchmen, he
said, were either sacrificed in war or
compelled to emigrate by "damnable
land laws which deprive the people of
the land that Qod gave them," and
which are constantly sending the country people Into the cities where they
are enfeebled by bad sanitation and
many other evil conditions.
He said
that in one district, 18 miles in length,
where regiments of men six feet in
height used to be raised, not a six-foot
ma.n can be found today,) ,:'/·
/
The ar1
ond best
again th,
the nien ,
States an
b'alia, to
did not
by the Ia
All .OV(
has been
best. W
about th
place wh
chance.
America
turned h
sea? It E
race. Bi
eastward
and the
made it
of comm
Elurope
Isles nor
across
what? I
of the n
and men
'l'hey ha
from Ii
tralla, I
South E
every sl
the dre.
that giv
gives hi
suit of I
came fo:
clreamec
they we
and the
the old
lie plecl!
to life 1
· happi11e:
chance 1
world's
Greece
olig_ai·ch
But w
you do1
1.00 yen
what 11
chance
the ver.
and Ire
1.Jefore
1776 th
Into Vii
of Enp
damnal,
the sea
went in
the Vlr
did Vil
general
�FORD HALL FOLKS
to begin with, Damnable
word-is the fit word (Ap,
rowded the people from the
I he cities and so gave them
whatever of the land that
for the people. (Applause.)
le the land for. the people.
were crowded off the land
ies and made to live in the
litary conditions, negleoted,
·ith what result?
it in their faces; faces with
many a face was 'narrow
of the outlook, wealrened,
mrlred unmistakably with
Ll I ask why? I remember
ng wrote in his glorifica' God, we paid in iull."
But if you ,feed your very
sharks and the gulls again
ies in and asks who are
ell the generation to come.
gulls are sharks and gulls
ve fed them ·your best. And
sain the physical standard
rs frop1 England were low> the ranks full.
Worse
n England is the north
ins had a reputation the
for the physique of her
lJy men of the north. The
ion holds in the north, in
hills, for life there has
l through the centuriesThey had to fight for
cl the weaklings died in
~fore they bred a race of
mould. Therefore when
•. for wqr, regiment after
·ched out, every man six
them more.
rilling the former great
r Scotch Highlanders,
· of which had to be at
in height, the speaker
]Jreeding places of thos,3
1e now become shooting
noblemen and American
Hd the natives now arc
and merely caddies or
sportsme1i,
virile Scotchmen, • he
lwr sacrificed in war or
emigrate by "damna·ble
,It deprive the people of
God gave them," and
tautly sending the couni the cities where they
lly bad sanitation and
ii conditions.
He said
trict, 18 miles in length,
,ts of men six feet in
Ile raised, not a six-foot
rnd today,)
·
8
I
The army took their best, their second best and their third best, and
again the damnable •land laws drove
' the nien out over the sea to the United
States and Canada, drove them to Ausfralia, to South Africa,
Those they
did not Idll in war they drove away
by the land laws.
Al! over Great Britain the sacrifice
has been the same.
Wasting their
best. What about your country? What
about this new republic? Here was a
place where the race was to get a new
chance, Men and women, what did
America
signify, when Columbus
tumed his prow across the unknown
!3ea? It signified a new chance for the
race. British Europe had been facing
eastward but the fall of Constantinopl1;1
and the closing of -the Dardanelles
made it impossible for the carrying on
of commerce eastward any more,
So
·Europe tumed westward to the little
isles north of the· Atlantic,
We came
across the Atlantic.
Looking for
what? Dreaming of what? Dreaming
of the. new chance and of a new· land
a11d men have been coming ever since.
They have ·been coming from England,
from Ireland, Scotland, from Australia, from Europe, North Europe,
South Europe, coming ever since and
every ship load has them, Many are
the dreamer$ who dream of a land
that gives a man a fair chance, that·
gives him "life, liberty and the ptfrsuit of happiness." (Applause.) They
came for equality of opportunity, They
dreamed of America as a place where
they would be rid of the oppression
and the hardship and the injustice of
the old world. And then this republic pledged itself to what? To freedom
to life. and liberty and the pursuit ot
· liappiqess.
Here democracy had a
chance that autocracy never ·had in the
world's history before.
Talk about
Greece and her autocracy-it wus u:n
oligal'chy,
B1.1t what have you done? What haTu
you done? When you had had nearly
100 yearii of the great chance then
wliat lrnppened? When you had a
chance with the very best breed, for
the very best from England, Scotland
and Ireland· came to this United States
before 1860, what did you do? Before
1776 the best blood of England went
into Virginia, sons of the best families
of England, who, because of their
damnable land laws, had to come over
the seas.
Many thousands of them
went into Virginia, and the blood is in
the Virginian stoclr to this day, Why
did Virginia give men for presidents,
generals, leaders, orators? Because the
blood was in Virginia, Forty thousand
of the highlanders from Seotland,
speaking nothing but Gaelic, went into
North Carolina before 1776, and there
are counties in that state today wl1ere
nearly all the men have the Highland.
Scotch in their blood, From the nort11
of Ireland and from Ulster they went
into Canada and Tennessee, and the
best of Puritan England came into New
England. Boston got its share of Elngland's best men, her most heroic, most
devoted, most ·progressive men,
And
what happened? From Germany not a
few came and what happened?
You
had one great war,
One great war.
And what have you today?
I went
through your recent campaign, I lmow
your parties. I lrnow your leaders. I
know what they said, They have said
there ls now no equality of opportunity, that the big interests have destroyed freedom, (Applause.)
That
there needed to be a new revolution.
(Applause,) And that statement proclaimed to the world~what? That the
freedom promised by Washington and
by Franklin, and by Jefferson, had not
been made good. (Applause,)
And I
ask, Why? Why?
I heard it from Roosevelt; I heard
it from Taft, I asked Mr, Taft in Baltln10re one day, with 3500 people in
the theatre, w,th the Secretary of War
there, and members of the cabinet
there! also: Why is it, Mr, President,
that 111 this republic that was bom for
freedom, that was dedicated to freedom, why is it that over this republic
~hi_~ ls being said, that Lincoln's decla'.
iat10n of 'R government of the people
by the people and for the people ha~
been converted into a government of
the people, by the rascals for the rich?
(Prolonged applause,)
I do not say
that is true,
(Applause,)
·That is
none ·of my business.
But I do say
that, putting my ear to the ,ground r
heard that thing from the north, the
south, the east, the west, and the middle, And I ask them why? Why· is it
that here, where Democracy was to be
gi!e1~ Hs one great new chance to justify itself against the monarchies Democracy appears to have failed? '
Has it had anything to do witi1 this:
that scarcely more than a generation
ago, less than two generations ago in
your one great war, you sacrificed ~ver
G00,000 men from the North the best
men the North could breed; you sacrificed more than 400,000 men from the
South, .the best men that the South
could breed? That of those who ought
to have been the leaders in polltics of
those who ough-t ·to have ·been in 'the
/
�FORD HALL FOU<S
What a richness it would have meant
great industries today, thousands have
never been born? They died with those to your republic if you hftd been able
heroes who went out In that awful war. Iii some other way to solve the problem
I do not say whether that war was a -without the sacrifice of so many, so
just war or not. I do not discuss the many hundreds of thousands in their
morality of that enormous struggle, teens-who left no bt·eed behind. That
but what I do say is that the biologiqal · 1s the tragedy. 'l'hat Is the tragedy of
reaction is plain.
Therefore am I it. It is not simply that you lost these
asking-where are the successors of men but you lost the sons they would
those leaders of men, the men who have bred for the necessity of today.
made the glory of Boston, who made '!'heirs are the spirits unborn, the lost
New England shine over the republic- multitude who ought to have been in
around the world-where are they? your State Legislatures today, who
Their names, some of them, are in the ought to have been in your Chamber,3
Memorial Hall of Harvard University. of Commerce, ,vho ought to have been
, · And they fell from among that 156,000 members of your Boards of Trade, and
who marched out of Massachu.setts, who ought to have been at the head of
singlrig "We are corning, Father Abra- Industries; who ought to have been at
ham."
They went from all these. the head of movements all over the
no.rthern states; from Illinois, In the United States today standing for jusWest they went; but what a sacrifice tice, standing for government of the
New England made! They never came 1ieople by the people and for the peoback, They were in the army at tlle ple, standing for the rights of men and
Potomac, in the army at Cumberland, saving your republic from the dishonor
in · the army at Tennessee.
Their of which you yourselves complain.
spirits were spllled in the air, and (Applause.)
their blood watered the wilderness.
Two years ago I was in Mexico. In
The tragedy ls on Boston, on Massa- one of the cities that I visited I was
chusetts a11d on New England to this greatly ,impressed by the fact that
day.
Lincoln said· "That the North the women were as well built and
paid the full measure of devotion." husky and physically flt as any
Aye, by the Great God, dlcln't the So,uth crowd of women I have ever seenpay. in •full? Virginia, North Carolina, outside of Boston.
(Laughter and
Tennessee, Kentucky, all around the applause.)
The women did all the
circle-whole families wiped out. business. I ask why?
In those 30
There is the tragedy, No· wonder the years of wars the men have been
South is suffering.
No wonder the killed off again and again and again
South has been all these years lagging until they are men no more.·
behind. '!'heir best blood was spilled
What about the Balkans? Look at
on the battlefield.
Their best brains, that war there. The time that I was
their high spirit was lost In the air reading these other despatches, there
and this republic ls the poorer-forever came in a despatch about the Balkar
the poorer, because of the loss that war that said that the Balkans had
.never can be recovered. You lost t.hose sacrificed the flower of their army,
that would have given distinction.
How ·long will It take them and its
Perhaps it could not have been done allies to breed a generation to match
in any other way; perhaps you ln the those ·who have gone down In that
United States could not have solved war? They will never recover that
the problem of slavery as It was solved · they have lost. Their dead come not
60 years before-more ·than 60 years back and their unborn, the unborn of
before, nearly 80 years before~in Can- their heroes that went up against
ada. A man who had slaves In the Turkey, will remain unborn.
Me1i. and women, Is it not time that
South brought them over into Canada.
The first Parliament in 1792 meeting we co1ii1Jatted this stupendous folly?
at Niagara, did what?
Took action The scientists are going to show you
that led to the abolition of slavery In that wars, which have killed off your
that Dominion.
(Applause.) It did best, are not going to Improve the
what? It enacted a law that no slave moral power, the ·physical strengt11,
could be sold in Canada and that the the social rights; the Industrial cachildren of all slaves would be born pacity, and the prestige of the nation.
free. The slaves remained in that re• For the fact Is that your law of evoIn the
lation to their masters, but they could lution Is . reversed In war.
not be sold and their children were struggle for existence the weak had
born fl'ee, And Canada got rid of the gone down, but ,In war you1· ,Jaw of
burden of slavery without shedding a evolution is reversed, It Is the fittest
who go down. It Is the most heroic
drop of blood. (Applause.)
�FORD HALL FOLKS
1ess It would have meant
I ic If you had been able
way to solve the problem
sacrifice of so many, so
s of thousands in their
l no breed behind, That
'l'hat ls the tragedy of
mply that you lost these
ost the sons they \vould
the necessity of today,
spirits unb9rn, the lost
ought to have been in
eg-islatures today, who
been in your Chamber,~
who ought to have been
nr Boards of Trade, and
,ave been at the head of
o ought to have been at
,ovements •all over tlje
today standing for jusfor government of the
people and for the peo,r the rights of men and
mlllic from the dishonor
yourselves complain.
,o I was in Mexico, In
es that I visited I was
sed by the fact that
re as well built and
,Iiyslcally fit as any
<'ll I have ever seen;ton,
(Laughter and
he women did all tho
k why?
In those 30
the men have been
t and again a_nd again
men no more,
the Balkans? Look at
The time that I was
ither despatches, there
,atch about the Balkar
that the Balkans had
flower of their army,
it take them and its
a generation to match
e gone clown in that
I never recover that
'l'helr dead come not
unborn, the unborn of
1at went up against
,main unborn.
1en, Is It not time that
tills stupendous folly?
ti·e going to show you
h have killed off your
l;oing to improve the
he physical strength,
,ts, the Industrial caprestige' of the nation,
that your law of evosed in war,
In the
istence the weal, had
in war your •law of
ersed, It Is the fittest
It ls the most heroic
who go to the field, The unfit, they
survive. We have got a few of the
breed In Toronto,
They have SUI'·
vlved, the ones who made fortunes
out of selling rotten food and shoddy
uniforms and dishonest eqrjpment
for your heroes to die froin, they
have survived.
They breed their
kind. (Applause.) And out of them
co111e the manipulators and the booc'!•
lers and the bosses and the rest or
the crowd that have cursed yon to
this very day, (Applause.)
But it is time that a new note was
struck and America ought to strike
that note and strike it strongly, (Applause,)
The supreme opportunity
comes now to America and to the
United States and to Canada-for we
also are Americans. ( Appia use.) Canada and the United States must
stand together for this thing, for the
redemption of the ,vorld from the
curse of war. (Applause,) We have
a right to speak to our fellows in
Britain, those of us who are of Anglo
•on stock,
We have a right to
speak to our •fellows in Germany, ·
those of us who ,have Teuton in us.
'\'Ve have a right to speak, For what
have! we done? For through one hundred years we have kept peace between two of the proudest people God
lets live
anywhere,
(Applause.)
Those .inland seas of ours never heard
a shot from a man-of-war and never
will.
(Applause,)
Four thousand
miles stretches our boundary line.
Four thousand miles of a boundary
line without a gun, without a soldier
or a fort to be seen anywhere, W.hen
some military genius came over from
Britain he tried to make us nervous
on our side of the line because w,~
had no baftleshlps and were unfortified.
I took occtislon at -the press
conference in London with Balfour
in · t•he chair, and Lord Roberts hlmi,elf. there, I. took occasion to tell them
and to tell the representatives from
Australia, New Zealand · and South
, Africa, that we could show them on
this continent what they could see
nowhere else. (Applause.)
I told
them this: that the only fortification
needed between the Canadians and
the Americans, the only battleships,
the only guns that were needed, the
only guns we had and the only guns
we wlll allow are the common sense
and clvlllzed relations •of these two
people, (Prolonged applause,)
When men tell me that there can
neYer ·be peace between Germany and
England, I ask what ls in the blood
of the Teuton that you cannot civil•
lze, If you can civilize the blood of
7
the MacDonalds and the Campbells,
with their historic fends, If you can
civilize that, what ls there in the
Teuton blood that common sense can·
not do? And if the Teutons would get
together they would make the Nol'th
Sea as peaceful as the English speech
has made Lake ,ontario, Lake Erie
and Lake Superior, (Applause,)
And America should lead the vis•
ion of America. Oh, that we who are
native born, would that we could
catch that vision!
That we would
dream the dream not only for America but for the new world!
(Ap·
planse.) That is why I stand arrainst
this wild and wicked scare, about
war between the United States and
Japan-a most colossal, shining joke!
(Applause.)
The new note; the new
idea, that we must stand for, is the
idea of world-neighborhood.
(Ap•
plause.)
Not the law of the jungle
but the law of the neighborhood, that
eternally righteous low:
"Love thy
neighbor as thyself."
(Prolonged
applause,)
SOME OF THE QUESTIONS.
Q, Can the speaker account for the
ae;tion of the Canadian Parllament
contributing two battleships to the
rnnglish navy?
A.' 'l'he Canadian Parliament has
not contributed two battleships to the
rnnglish navy, Three is what they
are proposing to contribute, but all
they irnve been doing as yet ls to de•
bate in Parliament, and the party
to which I belong is opposed to that,
I still pray God that the government
may be defeated. (Applause.)
Q, Isn't the factory system as m'!ch
tn blame 'aS' war for the det_eriorat10n
of the human breed?
A. The factory system is the result
of what we call again and again the
damnable land laws that crowd the
people off the land beyond all reason
into the cities where there is nothing
adequate for them to do and where
they do not get a chance to live on
the land, The cities, as we all know,
mther tend to destroy, The rural part
ot' Britain has been feeding cities all
these years, and the factory system is
the result of the land laws and the
Jund JawS' are the result of war laws,
'I'he land was taken away from the
people who fought for it.
Q, Has Japan become great be•
cause of her ability to defeat Russia?
A, Japan has become great in the
oyes of a great inany, people because
of what she did, but Japan was just
as gri,at before, because· she did not
waste her blood and destroy her
lr
�8
FORD HALL FOLKS
breed. Through centuries of peace
Ja.pan built up her own people. Read
Japan's whole history and that of Russ·ia and of England, and the law will
hold for the Japanese as for us. (Applause.)
Q. Is child labor responsible for
degeneration as well as war?
A. I should say yes, and i.o the men
Who say you must have~war to discipline your people in order to call out
their heroic qualities and their devotion, to those men I say: if you men
want to show your heroism and prove
rour devotion, here is' the battle. Here
Is the call to save your nation from
the evils that are within. Here is a
cause worth while.
(Prolonged applause.)
·
Q. ·what Is the chance of Canadu
bolng annexed?
~
A. I do not believe that there is
any likelihood of the Dominion being
annexed, or the Republic being annexed to the Dominion. (Applause.)
Q. Does the speaker think we will
have reciprocity between the United
States and Canada?
A. Yes, and I think it. would malt'e
our breed better. I think you people
would be better if you had some of
our good food and we had some of
your good food. I stand for freedom
of trade in all the foodstuffs of the
people for this whole country, (Applause.)
Q. Is it worth while to have a social war?
A. I do not see where you are• going to improve the social situation by
killing off either side.
Q. How can we be for the suspens'ion of war as long as those who 'are
manufacturing arms and war nl.aterials find profit in them'?
A. By turning the searchlighL of
public opinion on the stEJ.el plate interests, on the battleship interests and ~
on all the interests that make profit
out of war scares. Turn the searchllght again and again and name the
firms that could not pay a penny of
interest or dividend on the capital in•
valved if It were not for new orders
from. the admiralty of Britain and
from the navy of this republic,·
Q. From a disinterested point of
view-as a neighborfOn the other side
of the line-do you think that the con-.
fllcting interests of capital and labor
in this country can be settled without
war?
· A. The United States is at a serious stage in Its hlstoi•y. It becomes ,
every cltlr,en of this republic to face
the problem, a new problem, not or
wa1· with enemies from without, but
of the disturbances raised in the conflict of Interests within. your own republic.
This great thing th~t yott
hnve to do for the world now is to justify democracy-whether the government of the people, by the people -and
for the people is going to make good.
I-
SUBSCRIPTION BLANK
Please send ...... , , Coples FORD HALL IPOL/KS each week for. , , , ..
weeks to the following address,,: ...... , ....... .
I
IO
O
O
Oft
O O
10
t
ft
t
I
IO
ti
00
f
O
t
Date ...................... 191....
.
SUBSCRIBE FOR YOURSELF AND A FEW IPRIEJIDS. Thus you will
help one of The Democratic Forces of our 'l'hue, a Movement Whose Guiding
Principles are:
·
Nothing is permitted on our platform intentionally offensive to race,
class or creed.
We are ready to consider any ~ub ject that has moral and spiritual value,
No place forf anything merebc entertaining or purely technical.
Only requirement of a speaker is that he have a real message and
the' power to put It over,
[Make all checks payable to Mat·y C. Crawford, 'freasurer.]
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection 1885-2011 (MS114)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Meyers, Arthur S.
Description
An account of the resource
The collection contains 9 boxes of Arthur S. Meyers' research files related to his book, <em>Democracy in the Making: the Open Forum Movement</em>. The book, published in 2012, chronicles the history of the nationwide open forum movement, including the role of the Ford Hall Forum. The collection contains photocopies of letters, articles, and programs related to open forums and the movement’s proponents such as George W. Coleman and Mary Caroline Crawford. <br /><br />A <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/researchguides/12/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">finding aid</a> is available which describes and inventories this collection. Digital files are available at: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/</a>
Language
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English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil society -- United States -- History
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Crawford, Mary Caroline
Democracy -- United States -- History
Meyers, Arthur S
Political culture -- United States -- History
Political participation -- United States -- History
Relation
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See also, the Ford Hall Forum Collection (MS113), Suffolk University
Document
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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ms-0205
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Folks newsletter, vol. 1, no. 11, 03/09/1913
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1913
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Source
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Meyers Open Forum Collection, 1885-2011 (MS114)
MS 114, Folder: 53
Type
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Text
Documents
Format
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PDF
Language
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English
Subject
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Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
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Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
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<p>View the <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/-/media/suffolk/documents/about/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections/ms114_findingaid_pdftxt.pdf?la=en&hash=486EEBE8C7ED9B1E7B1E8400F934ED64828945AC">finding aid to the Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection (MS 114)</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p></p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/11079/archive/files/2b62ed093aee602d494528a98a402517.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=HyYDwPvQOq7eCrZesXUrqS0-qzJN70-gF6H6jAAalKDJeyYXLB1RbXfZZV%7EtSseOApZDzTPFJmbahGQ5Tb4xm9TRD-JQUphMibgo25eBjcOnxnKYG96pzMmQk5373LcigKYudwkSjNOlDr98SGBjv47MY2VQ4ysOJVilxZcta66ACqD2BbUC4pNbLBn5MvtnFkZtjrYVGXCE%7E2qpGWHA6VHze6PSJAwL0tz7m9AAVHutyoDi0%7EG9zxORmmST%7EjvMnESIoVg3KbOgcRgZNgGa7dfz9U-ZKiYc4%7EpSYNbQVAvr4kWGpSsCsFBdaekBM0Ou-aGEVvtUT0Ul%7E2sMd8gQ-w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
a79b30e8034a332d8aed502d482ad0c1
PDF Text
Text
unless
to read
several
er our
nty-five
d Fritz
:?
ys they
at corment in
s great
: public
s probt which
,s there
ground
ther, to
J shape
s being
ke bold
nay be,
in the
v York
r, New
1g in a
~rnoons
ton has
,prings,
r much
ngs tov's life.
because
ineered
here to
already
tve for
d, trueics and
leained
1ve
en-
nge of
far as
nter of
h more
·t their
Iler the
~eous)y
y prosinstitutively),
est and
wledge,
irnulate
y town
,uld be
ng and
should
1cthi11g
11A
necessary to I
But I clear!y, recognize that while this may be' my ideal for such
a meeting,,others _will work out quite' different conceptions. It mat• , with it altoge:
·ters little how it• is done so long as •you succeed in getting together
But we do:
keenest joy,
fair representations of all those who have good will and who want
to do something to· make it count.
·
· siste.rs of the
to high thinki
Wid~ly· Varying View11 No 'Bar to Profitable Discussio~
fellowship of 1
There is another very helpful way in which. this interest in the
[ would ~athe1
com'mon life may be nurtured and promoted. I. have found from
evening churc
.,
·six: years' experience with an ever-increasing group of guests at
evening d11rin1
;r--,---'------'--...i.kl-....J~.._.,.. m,u..-hama.ui_LS11aamore.Beach each season that it fa_possi~Je.-Jc;H9wship wit
· i, and J
'in h,
s pr
retht
is ti
)re
·e fa
of ei
1g 5(
la of
Vol. r. No. 12.
lVI_arch r6, 1913.
Price Ten Cents
bree<
by a
SELF-MEASUREMENT.
of natural laws In process of time just
-:unat,
the same as the powers of the body
ding
The most difficult thing In the world 'are developed-only they travel farther.
!d al'
It ls a pity to fall short of the full
is to get an accurate measure of yourgrou:
self,-your own strength and capacity stature of one's manhood. And it is
or al
pathetic to be forever reaching out for
and sincerity. The easiest thing is to
the shining moon. It is the part of
1{ Olli
deceive yourself,
er fa<
Nothing ls more necessary, If you common sense to get a good measure
of yourself.
would accomplish the thing for which
other
you were made, than to get that selfl give
same accurate measure of yourself.
nook
And nothing Is more dangerous than
comn
the habit of deceiving yourself.
e inte
Some fail because they take too
NEXT SUNDAY'S SPEAKER,
e not
large a measure of theinselves and cannot live up to their own expectations.
ent fc
Rev. Nicholas Van der Py! of HavBut the great majority, I think, in erhill who, more than any other single
privat,
spite of the seeming ·prevalence of self- incliviclllal, contributed to sane and
st all
concelt, take too small a measure of sountl public opinion at the time of the
themselves, which Is none the less fa- Lawrence strike, addresses us next
tal, though It does not advertise its Sunday, his subject being "Lessons
failure quite so conspicuously,
from Recent Industrial Outbreaks."
'I'he truth of the matter is, you must Mr. Van der Py! is a keen and syml'etak~ your measure frequently and pathetic student of every form of peoIn many different ways; for you are a ple's movement and came to know Etllvlng, growing thing, and your pow- tor and Giovanetti well during those
ers are either waxing or waning all months when they languished in jail.
the time according to the way In He can tell us much of value, therewhich you are using, them,
fore, about their cause and similar
Leam to measure your own spirit causes in other communities.
from the analogies of your own body.
Your physical measurements will tell Rey, Hen'ry C. Vedder, D.D.,
Crozer Theological Seminary,
YQll at the very start whether you can
Chester, Pennsylvania.
excel as a sprinter or a wrestler or
"The Ford Hall meetings are a
whether you may be just an average
man at either. But on,Jy daily experi- unique Institution. There have been
ence and careful training and testing attempts to establish similar meetwill give you the measure of how far ings In other cities, some of which
yoii can go In the direction of your have been. moderately successful for
a time, but none have rivalled, not
special bent.
Llkewlse ln the things that are un- to say equalled, Ford Hall. This is
seen a careful measurement of your because there is but one George W.
evident capacities and powers will Coleman. The combination of qualishow at once your special gifts, your ties demanded for tlrn successful conobvious lacks, or your average all- duct of Stich meetings, year after
ronnd qualities. Then daily practice, year, is not common in a single perwith careful and sincere watching, sonality, \Viele knowledge of men, as
well as thorough knowledge of huwlIJ tell you the rest,
But this difference must be bome man nature, unflagging enthusiasm
tempered by hard sense, much
In mind: there are ,limits beyond ence In handling all sorts and expericondiwhich we know thE) body cannot go
tions of men, a gift of humor and unbut the capacities of the mind and failing patience, perfect courtesy and
soul seem almost infinite.
a firm wlll,-all these In just the
And just there lies the danger of our right proportions, joined to an unplaying the fool with ourselves, Be- feigned love of God and man, go to
cause these !)Owers seem limitless It make up the conductor of such an
does not follow that they work ' by enterprise.
Vi7hat wonder men of
nrn 91c. They ex'111nid by the operation tlrn t type 11re rare!"
·
jforb
Mau jfolhs
Ir~&~
�t••~•-•:o-J7--r 0~0w,,-i.1.., , .. •·z-·---·-11/ltllre than meets together elsewhei·e ht'tTI(; 'N~{ft'ttii'g1attd 11leirofolli,!$·1A!l&J;W~
A11d as here,· clearly·
11d which leads a11d l'l?al/y, governs those, gatherings.
• co11ceives bpj
's II as rnlminatill iii J,11111a, solidarity .
~
:tll all
,tatemen
the dee
111ust flf
2
1
so and
rn Chris
Are a
commo:
1itin~ :lo
1e worlc
·gration,
Inadeq
111ents h
ife. Th
, free pl
,s, with
ch have
,·ments <
si:
FORB HALL FOLKS
ns are ;
\rnerica
,geneom
many c'
11s all tc
onger b
cstructi<
tution a
,n<l less'
a wide
·thing a
ire eith(
111111011 r
<lo not
widely
sts, Chr
rats, ·Pr,
or bitte
ed unde
is com
The ri
t reets ar
h each·
1turally,
co
I will find that these
will be marked 1111 ns
cesses In all our llv
this purpose of hopef
and good cheer that l
tonight with this st01
I have for 20 year:
terested In this ma1
my colleague. He cllec
dent and I went dow
er's ex]leriment had
gather material for a r
a week there amo111s
that old colony. I th
was left In the way ,
man relationship. S1
old book store In L01
the first pages of th i
raphy and I learnec
his first experiments
saw what was left
seen his clescendantf
where I get the sam
same justification fo1
Now, In order Urn
stand, let me give y,
where the great exp,
In Posey County, 1111
Owen in 1824 cam
nowhere, He tells m
for days through, tlH
ness, guided only b,
suddenly came to
forests dlsa])J)eared ,
before him a magni
says there were
everywhere, fruit ,
wheat, and, In the
siderable town, As
this open plain he c
!age with houses bu
brick. 1:n the mlclst
Two large warehous,
storing grain for t.
the Indians. A mil
timber, another mill
and as handsome a11
have found anywhen
after a meal he wen
of the town where 1
wheat field two mil
grown people of th,
work cutting the w
and laying the grain
the sun went down
people turned and c:
town. The leader ,,
them-and the churc
He lead them into
mounted the platfor 1
pews. He addresse,
good cheer and e1
hope for the morr,
missed them to th,
was dee])ly impresse,
characters and goocl
0
EDWIN D, i\llilAD,
Edwin D, Mead,
The World Peace Foundation, ·
Boston.
"The Ford Hall movement has lived
with increasing vitality and power for
five years, and will go on Jiving, be•
cause it was a movement which was
needed here in Boston, and similar
1r.ovements are needed In every American city, because it has been Informed and inspired from the beginning trntil now with the right spirit
and because It has been conducted
with great abl!ity and common sense.
It has taught the churches lessons and
it has brought home to the whole pub•
lic the necessity of bringing the real
r(Jigious sentiment and Ideal to bear
directly upon the really vital and
pressing Issues of here. and now,"
Rev. Woodman Bradbury, D. D.,
Old Cambridge Baptist Church.
"In five short yearf\ the movement
has overcome opposition, dissipated
doubt, established its rai.son d'etre,
proved its usefulness, stimulated slm•
liar meetings in other centres, and
sent out a great light from the
ancient beacon on the hill. In short,
it has grown from an experiment to
an Institution,"
l'JtOF llAll~ES,
I
ROBERT OWEN: A SUCCESSFUL
FAILURE,
(Address of Prof. Earl Barnes of Phi ladelphla at the Ford Hall Meeting, March 9, 1913,
.
Mr. Ch'alrman and fellow students:
I am here tonight to tell you a story of
a man's life, He was a man who
started with nothing.
He quickly
achieved success. At 28 he was among
the foremost manufacturers of England. At 56, In the full maturity of
his powers he was rich, and one of
the best beloved and most significant
figures In the manufacturing world.
Then he dreamed a dream and he
came to America to our western frontiers to spend the remaining years ot
his life In trying to realize this dream.
He failed.
He wandered Into the
world a discredited and broken old
man. He died neglected and forgotten. But I wish to point out that this
man's life was a marvelous success,
and I bring this message to you for
your individual aid and comfort. I
have not the slightest Interest In •presenting for you tonight a historical biographical subject. I am here to meet
men and women, my brothers and sis•
lers. I want to bring a message which
will take hold of the hearts of every
man and woman here. For we, too,
are successful failures. There Is no
person of adult years In this hall who
has not at some time dreamed a dream
o~ benefiting others possibly one or pos•
s1bly a group. 1Ve have clone our best.
We have given them our time and our
labor; of our hope and our endeavor,
We have given of our money, We have
given of our hearts and we have seen
it all end In ignominious failure.
When a man's life Is finally appraised,
however, I am confident that you and
,lex that
11ters .an
·s. The
Dean George Hodges, D.D.,
still our
Episcopal Theological School,
the ma
Cambridge, Mass.
; ministr
"It Is highly desirable that there
should be a free platform for social
1tic idea
and religious discussion under the aus•
; are pl'
pices of
tlu, Christian
religion.
\nd our
Moreover, it Is a salutary thing for re•
y mirro:
llgion itself to hear the frank criticisms of those who are out of sym•
I the jot
pathy with Its institutions. I hope
ligion a:
your work wlll continue In the liberal
1 take th
spirit, the same fearlessness of free
an's clas
speech and with increasingly good re·
1 socialii
suits.
yellow j
; in its id
'. ends oJ
without norintlillecr dowtY~~anyt11111g re1at111g to t11e~comm0Tl"lnel'"""It"isiiJtl!ii6iioURHitmit"irsnoilld,..-r--,:---11111111
,ut .they must be evolved
be simply a forum for the airing of views .. It must be something '
together work out their
more than a platform for the making of speeches. It m'ust not be
confined to the spiritual conventions of any religion, but it must be·.
shot through and through with moral and splrltuatlpurpose, To
all this broad land where
this end it must not be either a
or a service.
·er in friendly spirit our
n
�,,-,-·--0
i;;
0
But cle~r\; re~~g~i:~ that ·whi1;'this~
my idealfor s~ch -~;:;-ecessary to the
a meetirtg,,others will work out quite' different, co?ceptio~s. It ma~with it altogeth,
.ters little how it' is done so Jong as ·you succeed m getting together
But· we do nc
fair• representation~ of all those who have good will and who want keenest joy. T
1.
•
sisters of the· h<
to do something to ma .. e tt count,
to high thinkin
,
Wid~1y' Varying View11 No 'Bar to Profitable Dl11cussion
fellowship of th
'There is another very helpful way in which this interest in the
I wo.uld ~ather
'
evening d ·
church
common l'f e may be nurtured and promoted · I ·have found · from
I
•
•six: years' experience with an ever-increasing group ~f . guests. at evening . urt~g
. I
_________...,._......_
·•th and p1
'ttuz-,.Qumnuu•_hom"-'lL.Saaamore.Beach each season that It IS posstbl\:-_fello~shti; with
FORD HALL FOLKS
BAUNE8.
....
~: A SUCCESSFUL
!LURE.
. Earl Barnes of Phi la•
e Ford Hall Meet-
1rch
9,
1913.
and fellow students:
t lo tell you a story of
lie was a man who
othing,
He quickly
At 28 he was among
,annfacturers of Engthe full maturity of
was rich, and one of
I and most significant
anufacturing world.
med a dream and he
•1 to our western fronhe remaining years or
, to realize this dream.
: wandered into the
lited and broken old
neglected and forgot1 to point out that this
a marvelous success,
is message to you for
aid and comfort. I
ightest Interest In •pretonight a historical bi.;ct. I am here to meet
11, my brothers and sis•
llring a message which
of the hearts of every.
an here. For we, too,
failures, There Is no
years in this hall who
, ·1 lme dreamed a dream
hPrs possibly one or posWe have done our best.
them our time and our
hope and our endeavor.
of our money. We .have
L•arts and we ·have seen
n Ignominious failure.
life Is finally appraised,
1 confident that you and
i
I wlll find that these failures of ours
will be marked up as the g.re[),test successes In all our lives and It Is for
this purpose of hopeful encouragement
and good cheer that I come before you
tonight with this story.
I have for 20 years been doubly in·
terested in this man. His son was
my colleague. He died through an accl·
dent and I went down where his fath·
er's experiment had been tried, to
gather material for a Memorial. I spent
a week there among the remnants of
that old colony. I think I saw all that
was left in the way of record and human relationship. Subsequently In an
old book store in London I ran across
the first pages of this man's autoblog•
raphy and I learned where he tried
his first experiments antl I went and
saw what was left of them. I have
seen his descendants, too, and everywhere I get the same Impression, the
same justification for my title.
Now, in order that you may under•
stand, let me give you first the place,
where the great EJXperlment was tried
in Posey County, Indiana,
Owen in 1824 came to this land of
nowhere. He tells us that, after rldlng
for days through, the trackless wllderness, guided only by blazed trails he
suddenly came to a place wher1;1 the
forests disappeared and there opened
before him a magnificent view, He
says there were crops growing
everywhere, fruit trees, grain and
wheat, and, in the distance, a considerable town. · As he rode through
this open plain he came into the vH
!age with houses built of timber and
brick, In the midst was a big church.
Two large warehouses were there for
storing grain for two years against
the Indians. A mill for sawing the
timber, another mill for making wine
and as handsome an inn as he could
have found anywhere in England. And
after a meal he went out to the edge
of the town where there was a great
wheat field two miles long, All the
grown people of the village were at
work cutting the wheat with scythes
and laying the grain In bundles, When
the sun went down this long line of
p(lople turned and came back Into the
town. The leader walked in front of
them-and the church doors were open.
He lead them Into the church and
mounted the platform. 'rhey filled the
pews. He addressed a few words of
good cheer and encouragement and
hope for the morrow and then dismissed them to their homes. Owen
was deeply impressed with the sterling
characters and good sense of this at-
3
tentive but rather humble audience.
Now, who were these people? For,
in 1824, the major 1mrt of Indiana was
still a wilderness. They were German
refugees. 'l'hey were known as Rappites, later as Economites. I have to
bring before you tonight three socialistic settlements, three socialistic or
communistic settlements and I want
to point out why two of them succeeded
and the third failed.
.When the French dreamed their
great dream of liberation, terminating
in the Revolution, after 1789, they
changed all conditions in France and
then were beset by a great dream
which changed all Europe, You must
remember that the French Revolution
was a world revolution. They soon
conquered the Rhinelands, Switzerland,
Italy and Spain. And that same revolution spread over this land and
changed the whole civilization of Mexico, of Central America and of all the
South American states. A transformation from monarchlal institutions to re1mbllcan institutions In all Latin America was part of the movement of the
French revolution.
The reaction which followed when
Napoleon's brother was taken from his
seat in Spain spread all through the
Rhinelands and the French were
driven out. The little German princelings came back and tried to re-establish the old regime, But though they
could re-establish the old regime politically; they could not re-establish the
014 conditions religiously, The consequence was that hundreds of thousands of people fled from the Rhine. lands, One group led by Rapp, a
strong figure, a very great personality,
crossed the ocean and landed in Philadelphia. How they made their way
from Philadelphia to the waters of the
Ohio, I do 1iot know. Tonight If you
leave ·Philadelphia at this time, you
would ride all night on a flying express
and anlve at Pittsburg only in time
for breakfast. It Is 350 miles across
forests and over mountains but in some
.manner they transpo,.•tn,d thernselvel:I
there. They built a flat boat and sailed
down the Ohio and up the Wabash and
stopped on this patch of land of 30,000
acres of forests. 'l'hey built their village, planted their fields, made a garden. This Is among the marked experiments in successful socialism.
Now why did they succeed? 1ror this
reastJ11. They were absolutely united.
They were absolutely unitecl. 1r1rst.
They were of one birth and had. the
~ame blood In their veins. They had
eaten the same kind of food; had the
•._, in he,
:ns pro
ogethe1
e is th,
nore I
are fai
l of eii
ing so
1da of
i breed
d by a1
r.tunatt
nding
ced al'
grou
for al
,of Oll
ver fa
e othe1
ve giv,
'nook
I
!
C0111I
he int,
lre nc
nent f
' priva
IUSt al
r
t
i,,
'
.
�:,,gs" in Boston, of wltich the fifth a1111ive1:sary has just been celebra!ed, are, tlte mos/
11 1; 011 of tltat city, brb1gi11g into sy111patltetic fe/lowsltip a more comprelte11siv.e repre- ,
1
ature than meets /ogether elsewhere in the New Engla11d 111etropo/1s:, And
111111011 11
tile 11 ,411 d wl1ich leads a11d, 1'Ca~!, governs those gather~11gs:' A_11d as here, ~/early,
' 1vllich conceives ~p I
m1Pl&s
• u.... ac ct1l·t1111toltHQ ◄-fl:rl:h◄lttt941:&m:SflUd[a1:ihL-----------l!lilllill-lld
.,1
w~ shall alt "gl
1us a sta teinentj
ers of the decl
t "we must all J
o means are al
Our Americal
heterogeneous.
us into many ch
ulling us all tof
the stronger bej
our destructio(
constitution an
Less and less";
covers a wide l
11' anything ab
hich are either
110 COl111110n 111
•r, but do not 1
ts are widely
Baptists, Chri
lemocrats, Pro
,11 ly for bitter
housed under
class is comt
ither. The ric
,cnt streets an,
lo with each 'c
nr, naturally d
i,
I
l>een so and
lo turn Christ
rch? Are al
;1ch a com111011
1·e w~i tins- iot
is the world
:jsintegration,;
oday Inadeq~
elements h~
life. Th,
: the free pu
press, with\
which have!
,g elements
2;
1111
a
:omplex tha~
c centers ,am
11ities. The,,
I, is still our
dth the ma1
r its ministr
1ncratic idea',
lives are pl
And our
only 111irro1
·cad the jou
religion al
who take th
· man's clas
:e a sociali!
a yellow j
ous in its id
1
FORD HALL FOLKS
4
same kind of customs and costumes.
They celebrated same: kinds of rites
for birth, marriage and death. They
were of the same thought;, they sang
the same songs. More than this, they
were bonnd together by the two things
thar unite men above all other things
iu this world. First they had undergone persecution; they had left their
homes, given up their property, destrted their fathers and landed on a
strange continent, cnt down the va,st
forest and built themselves a new
home. Such an exJ)erlence drives men
together, mak€s them forget slight differences, forces them back to the practical things they have In common and
makes for brotherhood everywhere. In
lhe second [)lace, they w!lre bound together by the gren t 'leader. Rap[) was
a man of singular [lower, square and
Intelligent. He knew what he wanted
He had the domineering will.
HE
forced his personality upon the people,
establishing his desires.
Then a strange thing hap]Jened.
Rapp determined to desert this village and lead his people once more into
the wilderness. I do not know why.
'I'here seems to be no good reason why
he determined to give u11 this settlement. Possibly he found them under a
condition of prosperity; the 11eople
were developing individual Initiative
and individual will which made it difficult for him to dominate them. Anyway he led the people Into Pennsylvania. One word in conclusion about
this. These people came to own over
$10,000,000 worth of proJ)erty but they
had very few children and the order
gradually died out and not many years
ago, about six, the order was dissolved
and their property divided among those
remaining in the settlement.
My JJlace ls ready now for my man.
He was bom in North Wales. His people were poor. He had nothing. He
says his education was comJ)leted at 7
ye:us old. He could read and write
and· figure a little. At 10 years he
started for London to make his fortune. It Is thought that Garfield and
Lincoln are exceptional men who
climbed to the top. No, I say. All
ov,er the world where children are
born, boys and girls, often very early
in life, start out on their great career.
I never see any Immigrants from the
old lands without feeling that here
among these children we have plenty
of Garfields and Lincolns, great spirited boys and capable-spirited girls who
might give to the world magnificent
leaders.
Owen starts for London and trudges
most of the way to the great metropo1is. '!'here Ile finds employment first
In a linen store which ls half a liaberdashery. This Is important. For here,
as assistant in this small dry goods
store he became acquainted with fabrics, he came to know the woolens and
cotton and silk and derived a kind of
sense of what they_ were and what they
re[)resented. After four or five years
here, he migrated north to Manchester.
In :Manchester he found a man who '
was making wire frames connected
with the spinning industry, He Identified himself with this man and 'subsequently took as part payment, when
the business was dissolved three of
these frames,
The cotton business at that time was
divided and the cotton passed into five
or six different factories , before it
finally came forth as finished cloth. At
19 years of age Owen had three hands
working for him and in a single year
he acquired $1,500.
Then he secured another positioi1 as
superintendent in a factory, whose
owner he persuaded to pay him a
salary equal to what he had earned,
independently,
He built up the business and at the
end of a year it was in a prosperous
condition. At this time he made journeys to the north buying rough thread
and selling fine thread. He went to
Glasgow and on one of these ti•ips he
was introduced by a lady whom he had
known In Manchester ·to a young lady
by the name of Dale. He formed an
admiration for the girl at once. One
of the great forces of his life was coming to play on him. Afterwards he
went there every six months-to Glasgow-for two years and on each trip
he saw Miss Dale. Miss Dale's father
was a very prominent man in Scotland.
He had helped to establish one of the
great banks in Glasgow. He was an
influential man in the Chamber of
Commerce. He was the owner of a
great factory in New Lanark. Owen
did not asJ)lre so high as Miss Dale.
She belonged to a different world from
his. But her friend in Manchester told
him one day that Miss Dale was not
only very fond of him hut that her
heart was disengaged. After that he
sought this friend in Manchester
repeatedly to hear simllar things.
(Laughter.) 'These things were repeated often enough until, Owen says
of himself, "My courage arose agah;st
all posslblllty. I dared to dream sometime of marrying her." Subsequently
he went north with a letter from Mlss
to
:~;:~1~~10-r.,.....h-a=n-d-ed_d_o_w_t_l__
a_nytl~l~g relating ·uiecomtnon e,
9
0
,
;, but they must be evolved
be simply a forum for the airing of views,, It must be, something \
•
be,.,
1110 re than a platform for the making of speeches,,,)t m,ust not h
,st together work out their
ll b I
confined to the spiritual conventions of any rel ll on, , Ut t must e '\ :
shot thr~ugh and through with moral a•.1,d 11plr.1t11.a. ~".rf,.ose .. T~ ':
in all this broad iand where
he either a
~r_!~~~..:. , ,
over in friendly spirit 'our , this encl 1t must
,~'.
Dale and saw
ark. I-le was
slbllitles. He
ners with wh,
Manchester, fo
as a partn<'r,
mills up nort
with him to i
Owen lhon snl
to buy YOIII' \\'
Drinkwater hn,
rll'o too young
hn Ye no cnpltn I
tlernen aro 111.1'
they havo ah111
nro their crod<JI
them 11111I wnH r,
said, "l\lr, Dalo,
worth 7" Dale I
he clld not 1<11011
turlng bt1RlneAR
velop and no R
set for lt. Bui
wlllfng lo leave
-to ow~n who
partners In buy
said, "Well, I an
60,000 pounds ,
fair price. If w,
of 3,000 JlOIIIHh
would be paid
that would he
right," said ,.\-11·.
He was 28 Y<'lll'R
have some quail
to do a thing of
had. not yet h1
great wealth of I
Owen set the prl
buy his mill.
Subsequently I
marry him, I-Ir
fearful that he ,
account of rellg!,
who was an ext
he did not cone
Dale came hack
cannot marn' yr
my father's pern
wl11 get it; I h:
else I want up tc
too."
In a year he
She was a towe1
Whatever failure
were largely om
marriage. His w
did chlldren, con
constancy across
long; life togethe
rich, married to n
Ing In a hanclsom
him to see what l
life. His conscle
asked him: What
only during this
t.
,I
�But I clearly recognize that ·while this may be my ideal for such
a meetit1g1 , others will work out quite' different conceptions, It matI -ters little how it' is done so long as ·you succeed in getting together
· fair representation~ of all those who have g~od will and who want
to do something to make it count.
I
Wid~ly· Varying View,i No ·Bar to Profitable Discussion
·There is another very· helpful way in which ·. this interest in the
, com'mon ljfe may be nurtured and promoted. I have foundfrom
· six: years' experience with an ever-increasing group ~f ,guests. at
-'----'--·-'-----,----'~ _J~mv_summer.home at Sagamor~_Beach e_ach season that_ 1~s_p~:,s1ble
necessa
with it
But'
keenest
siste.rs
to higl
fellows
[ woul<
evening
evening
fellows
. . •aitl
'v
FORD HALL FOLKS
s
1·ts for London and trudges
way to the great metropo•
lie finds employment first
tore which is half a lrnber·lis ls important. For here,
in this small dry goods
1·ame acquainted with fabe to know the woolens and
,ii k and derived a kind of
1 t they were and what they
After four or five years
rated north to Manchester.
I er he found a man who
; wire frames connected
1mlng industry. He identiwith this man and subse1, as part payment, when
, was dissolved three of
, business at that time was
the cotton n.assed into five
•rent factories before it
forth as finished cloth, At
1ge Owen had three hands
him and in a single year
/1 ,600,
,('nred another position as
nt in a factory, whose
,ersuaded to pay him a
to what he had earned
y,
JI the business and at the
1r it was in a prosperous
t this time he made jourorth buying rough thread
tine thread, He went to
un one of these ti•ips he
cd by a lady whom he had
nchester ·to a young lady
of Dale. He formed an
i1· the girl at once.
One
mces of his life was comon him. Afterwards he
1ery six months-to Glas, years and on each trip
llale, lVIiss Dale's father
oniinent man ln Scotland.
d to establish one of the
in Glasgow. He was an
inn in the Chamber of
He was the owner of a
in New Lanark, Owen
·e so high as Miss Dale ..
lo a different world from
friend in Manchester told
that Miss Dale was not
1Hl of him but that her
,engaged. After that he
friend in Manchester
i
hear similar things.
These things were reenough until, Owen says
,fy courage arose against
I dared to dream some1· i ng her."
Subsequently
1 with a Jetter from Miss
I
Dale and saw the works ·in New Lanark. He was' Impressed hy their possi bilitles. He went back to the partners with whom he was working in
Manchester, for he had been taken in
as a partner, interested them in the
mills up north and soon they went
with him to · look over those works.
Owen then said to l\fr. Dale, "I want
to buy your works." Dale smiled as
Drinkwater had smiled and said, '.'You
are too young and inexperienced and
have no capital." He said, "These gentlemen are my business partners and
they have abundant capital and here
are their credentials," Dale examined
them and was fairly satisfied, Then he
said, "Mr. Dale, what is your business
worth?" Dale hesitatingly replied that
he did not know. The cotton manufacturing business was beginning to develop and no standard ·price could 'be
set for it. But he said he would be
willing to .Jeave the price to Mr. Owen
-to Owen who was to be one of the
partners in buying the works! Owen
said, "Well, I am inclined to think that
60,000 pounds ($300,000) would be a
fair price. If )Ve paid it in instalments
of 3,000 pounds a year ($15,000) it
would be paid Ju 20 years. I think
that would be a fair price." "All
right," said Mr. Dale, "I will accept."
He was 28 years old then. A man must
have some quality of integrity in him
to do a thing of that nature. But life
had not yet heen disturbed by the
great wealth of the modern period. So
Owen set the price at which he was to
buy his mill.
.
·
Subsequently he asked Miss Dale to
marry him, He was himself already
fearful that he would have trouble on
account of religion and from Mr. Dale;
who was an extremely religious man,
he did not conceal his doubts. Miss
Dale came back to him and said, "I
cannot marry you unless you can get
my father's permission." He said, "I
will get it; I have gotten everything
else I want up to now and I'll get you,
too."
In a year he had won Miss Dale.
She was a tower of strength to him.
Whatever failures he may have made·
were· largely offset by his intelligent
marriage, His wife brought him splendid children, courage, faith, hope and
constancy across all the years of their
Jong: life together. At 28, this man,
:lch, married to a superior woman, llvmg In a handsome house, looked about
him to see what he should do with his
life. His conscience set to work and
aslrnd him: What ls my life work? If
only during this coming week, every
5
man and woman in this hall would say
to himself, how many days have I to
Jive, how many years, what shall I do
to make my life significant!
Before going on to describe Owen's
work in New Lanark I must say that,
until 120 years ago, Elngland was a
great agricultural land. It was a land
of wheat fields, grain fields and small
farms. A good deal of manufacturing
went on, but always in private homes.
There were no factories, 'fhe 18th century saw two inventions which changed_
the nature of the civilization of Elnglancl. These were the invention of the
stationary engine and the cotton gin
for separnting the seed from the cotton fibres. ffingland was successfully
placed to take advantage of these two
inventions. She had only to dig down
lnlo the earth µnd there was plenty of
iron; she hoisted the iron and made it
into stationary engines. Just outside
of the iron was almost inexhaustible
coal. She ~tood the engine outside the
beds of coal and hoisted the coal and
fed the engines and had power to drive
the wheels in industry. All that she
needed was hands. Then began the
great exodus from the farms which
still goes on today, Representatives
of the mills went out oi1 the hillsides
and through the valleys to bid people
come to work in the mills, They offered them svlenclid wages - what
seemed to them like splendid wages,
So they left their little holdings and
came down to spin and make cotton
cloth . for the. ships to carJf all over
ChristeJldom.
\iiThere was no type of factory in existence; the factory town was yet to
be. Suppose I handed yon-each one
of yon here tonight a sheet of paper
and said to you, "Draw me a plan of a
terminal station for an airship route
It will not be long before we shall have
airships all over the United States
with regular routes of call. They will
have terminal stations. Draw me the
architectural plan-outline a sketch of
the way a terminal station will look
for an airship," You would be embarrassed for there is no such thing in the
public mind today. 'l'hat was the state
of mind concerning factories when
Robert Owen took hold of the measure.
'l'he factories used were old barns to
which the people came down from
their cottages and farms. They lived
In old shanties, like a summer encampment just starting, with no sanJ.
taJ:,y conveniences. 'l'hese people were
habituated to individual bargainhig in
terms, of agriculture and they could
not combine. Tiley could not stand
�";i
\
O'
COi
si:x
1all' all
statem
the <
must 1
6
111s arc
Ameri
ugenec
) manJ
us all
rongel'
\es true
itution
:in<l le
s a wi
ything
are ei
,1111nor
l <lo I,
e wid·
ists, (
:rats,
for bi
sec! ur
; is C
The
;treets
th ea<
atural
l SO
1m
a
C\'.
Arc
com1
aitin~
hew<
egrati
1
1
Inac
·111ent1
Ii fe.
,c free
·ss, w
,ich h1
lcmen
,plex;
_-nters
l'S,
1
FORD HALL FOLKS
together. There were no laws for. their
• vrodnctlon and there was a firm conviction that there ought to be no ,laws;
that every man should stand alone.
Owe1i set himself to rlgh t these
wrongs, meanwhile turning over his
capital twice a year. Now any man
who can make 200,Yo on his capital
ought to be satisfied. A man ought ~o
be satisfied but it never works that
way. The more a man 1ias the more
he wants and the passion for making
more and more money hacl the English
employers firmly in its grip.
The children in these manufacturing
centres were roaming around the
streets. There was no education In
F.ngland then; state schools did not·
exist in E'ngland until 1870 a11d at' this
time no provisions whatever for the education of these children were made.
At first the wages seemed Immense to
the workers because they h'ad not been
used to having nrnch money. The few
. things they wanted to buy they had
bought by barter largely and they lived
on the products of the farm. The
wages had seemed immense but here
outside the factory where everything
was to be 'bought and paid for the
wages proved inadequate. There was
no way to force these wages up and so
pressure came upon the family. One
day the woman said, 'I can attend to
some of those spindles" and so she
went across with her husband to the
place where he worked and said to the
overseer, "Put me to work. I wlll
work for less than John." Her name
was added to the payroll.
Soon the
dividends Increased and they sent the
men home. Then one day the woman
said to the overseer, "My boy Jim, who
l8 ten years old, can attend to some of
the spindles. He can do something.
He Is better off here than on the street,
put him to work and ·pay him whatever you will." So Jim went on the
payroll and at the end of the month
the overseer .found that a larger income could be derived from children's
work than from the women's work.
~'hen Owen came to New Lanark
he found almost all the women and
children of the town working and literally hundreds of men Idle and wastIng their time. They were at a shop
where liquor was being sold and they
were drinking gin. You see lt was in•
evitable that It should come to that
from the first. It Is inevitable that it
should go on that way now.
This man, 28 years old, rich, Is a
man to right these wrongs. First he
tore down the shanties which were
there and put up cottages and im•
proved the building of the factory. His
were the most remarkable bulldingtl
in the world at. that time, his the ideal
factory town of the age. He put streets
between the houses. He put In lamps
to light the night. 'fhe little shops
sup.plying gin to everyone and selling
all the products at big prices, he closed
up. Two new shops were established
and tlielr profits put Into improving
the village.
'l'hen came the war of 1812 and the
Elmbargo Act. For nine months Eng•
land could get no cotton and for nine
months Robert Owen paid every one
of his employees full wages. The people knew by now wl10 their friend was.
He went ,further. He said, "These
houses are badly kept." Overseers
were apjiointed to look after the social conditions of the village. A man
would come to the door and say,
"Madam, you clean up · your house,
sweep this out; fix this room up." He
went further stHJ-here •Js his philosophy.
He said: A man's life is de•
termlned by circumstances. You take
two children-I do not care where they
are born and put one under good con•
ditions and he will make a good man;
put the other under bad conditions and
he will make a bad man. I know that
Is not true; you know that Is not tru!c',
We all know today that there Is a good
deal in heredity and that when the
parents suffer from disease it Is pretty
sure to affect their ofllspr!ng. But his
philosophy Is the best In the world because, while a reformer cannot change
the Inherited spirit of man very much
he can change his circumstances. His
philosophy said "change the clrcum•
stances and yoti will make all men
good." To emphasize the fact that he
believed he could shape a man' life by
his environment he organized a school.
Then he looked for a schoolmaster 'and
· found In the works a man by the name
of James Buchanan. Wherever this
man went there were to be seen children on his shoulders. So, though he
could barely read and write Owen said,
"Yon shall be the schoolmaster.". Then
he took three young girls and put them
in there to help Btichanan. He said,
"First make these children happy, If
I come here and find a child unhappy
you have .failed. Every child must be
happy, In the second place. Make
· these children love each other and
work together sympathetically and harmoniously." That Is a splendid educational policy. "In the third place,
teach them to love the things around
them, plants, trees and so on, In the
fourth place,-if you ever get to that
; still
1 the,
s mi~
·atic i
•s are
;\n<l
ly mi
,I the
digio1
o tak
1an's
a soc
yello
sin i1
C enclc ,'
.. ' ' ; - - ----~ .thin relating to the"cominciii-life:
sn 2j !) "
0~ ( :
without nor handed down
any . g
£
f r the airing of views, It must be somethrng
but they must be evolved
he simply a olruttfn o for the making of speeches, It niust not be._
•
k
ti1811. more than a p a orm
,
,
together wor out
, itual conventions of any rell gIon, bu t It mus t be , •
1
. .·
confined to t 1 sp1rthrough with moral an d spIrItua1-.pu.rpose. T o \' .
1e d
,
•··
.
1
1
,
· d I
shot t 1roug 1 an
.
I . ;c. •·,· .
,
all tlus broad Ian, ~v !_ere
•
cl 't must not be either a lyceum or_ a ~Cll'!_C~,~~C.::s_;_ ,~
.. _ .. :~ .. t~,:.-.nr1tu "n.u•1f 01tt" . t1
11S en
1
I·
teach them something
(Laughter.) Good edu
Icy. It soon became
John Stuart Mill visit,
borrowed Buchanan a
London and started a
this developed the sch,
British Isles.
·
Now, again you have
communism which s1
Because the people ·
gether by every kind
same descendantS', !iv
villages, intermarried,
toms and same· costnn
and same ceremonies
rlage and death; same
· life.. They were all
too, by the fact that
gone a great transfornculture to industrlalls
fered the same prlvat
they were bound toge
man. Robert Owen p1
will over them. Almo1
the conditions of the R
he succ!:leded.
Then ·he dreamed a
this should extend all
He went 9own to Lon
studied conditions tlie·
like Ford Hall, and a
to come. He mounted ·
experienced speaker I
and spoke straight to
heart. The hall was
seen men who were
meeting. They all tell
This man stood before
"Men and brothers, ye
crush each other. EvE
est Is_ every other ma1
every one of you, II
climb, must climb hr le
others, You can neve
backs of others to any
cant ha:pplness and )
something worth while
climb with others, ho
the hand. It sounds ,
have heard It on this J
ber of times.
But I
years ago. Then, this n
of his journeys to Pn
he had friends and 11
the standing commltte
ulate child labor.
'l'he measure was Ii
commlttee. It was bro
reading and then W(
They said, what "
fcrmed for anyway-ti
terfere with the rlgl
And so Parliament clo
opportunity to any cl
rise.
�-13~t°f ~l~;r\~
Tot
· 1·, reco~~i;~-ti;~twhi1e~ this "may b~ }ny i~eal
~;ch --;-;;~ces~a
'\ a meetirtg,,others will work out quite' different,co?ceptlo~s. It ma~with it.
,ters little how it' is done so long as 'you succeed tn getting together
But '
· fair representations of all those who have good will and who want
k_eenest
,
·
·
·
.
s1ste_rs <
.
t 0 h' 1
to do something to make 1t count. · ' · ' . . ,
·
1g 1
:y
. Wid~ly· Varying ViewB No ·Bar 'to Profitable DiBcUBBion
There is another very helpful way in which this interest in the
com'mon life may be nurtured and promoted. I have found ,from
six· years' experience with an ever-increasing group ~£ , guests. at
'truLSummer home at Sagamor~_Beach e.ach season that_1t 1s p~~s1ble
----'-~--'----'---L--'-'-~...L
s
FORD HALL FOLKS
Jrnlldlng of the factory, His
11ost remarkable buildings
I at that time, his the ideal
1 or' the age, He put streets
, houses. He put in lamps
e night. The little shops
iu to everyone and selling
nets at big prices, he closed
e IV shops were established
ll'ofits put into improving
e the war of 1812 and the
:t. For nine months Eng;e t no cotton and for nine
Jert Owen paid every one
Jyees full wages. The peouow who their friend w'as.
nrther. He said, "These
badly kept."
Overseers
1ted to look after the so•
ms of the village. A man
; to the door and say,
)ll clean up your house,
ut; fix tlus room up," He
r still-here 'is his phll·
2 said: A man's life is de·
-circumstances. You take
-I do not care where they
I put one under good conIle wlll make a good man;
· under bad co'nditlons and
J a bad man.
I know that
rou know that is not true.
today that there ls a good
,tlity and th.at when the
r from disease it is pretty
, their offispring. But his•
, the best in the world bea reformer cannot change
spirit of man very much
;e his circumstances. His
aid "change the circumyoti ·will make all men
rnphasize the fact that he
onld shape a man' life by
ent he organized a school.
,•cl for a schoolmaster 'and
worlrn a man by the name
whanan. Wherever this
ere were to be seen chil,houlders. So, though he
·ead and write Owen said,.
the schoolmaster." Then
young girls and put them
1elp Buchanan. He said,
these children happy, if
a]l(J find a child unhappy
,,(l. Every child must be
he second place. Make
·u love each other and
· sympathetically and barThat is a splendid ed11'.\'. "In the third place,
:J love the things around
trees and so on, In the
-if you ever get to that
1
-
teach them something out of books."
(Laughter.) Good education, good pol-'
Icy. It soon became so famous that
John Stuart Mill visited the 1Jlace and
borrowed Buchanan and took him to
London and started a school. Out of.
tl\is developed the schools all over the
British Isles.
·
Now, again you have a ty,pe of social
communism which succeeds.
Why?
Because the people were bound together by every kind of bond; of the
same descendantS', lived in the same
villages, intermarried, of the same customs and same costumes, food, habits
and same ceremoqies of birth, marriage and death; same attitude toward
life. They were all bound together,
too, by the fact that they had undergone a great transformation from agriculture' to Industrialism and had suffered the same privations. Moreover,
they were bound together by a great
man. Robert 1
Owen put his own good
will over them. Almost identical with
the conditions of the Rappltes. And so
he succeeded.
Then he dreamed a dream. He said
this should extend all over the world
He went down to London on a visit;
studied conditions there, hired a hall,
like Ford Hall, and asked the people
to come. He mounted the platform, in
experienced speaker though he was,
and spoke straight to them from his
heart. The hall was packed. I have
seen men who were present at thiF
meeting, They all tell the same story.
This man stood before them. He said,
"Men and brothers, you ought not to
crush each other. Every man's inter•
est is every other man's Interest and
every one of you, if you wish to
climb, must climb by lending a hand tc
others. You can never climb on the
backs of others to any point of signlfi•
cant ha·pplness and you. will reach
something worth while only when you
climb with others, holding them by
the hand. It sounds very good, You
have heard it on this platform a munber of times.
But it was new 100
years ago, Then, this man went on one
of his journeys to Parliament where
he had friends and he Introduced to
the -standing committee a bill to regulate child labor.
The measure was taken up by the
committee. It was brought to the first
reading and then went no further,
They said, what was Parliament
farmed fo1'. anyway-that It should interfere with the right of contract?
And so Parliament closed the door ol
opportunity to any child who would
rise.
fellows!
[ would
evening
evening
fellows!
•~ith
7
One day he called together thousands
of men. He said, "Men and brothers, I
have come into his hall today probably
the 'best-loved man in the British Isles.
I shall go out of this hall the worst
hated man in the British Isles. But It
Is my duty to tell you what I firm]}
and devoutly believe.
I have been
urging you for years to lend a hand
and· help your brothers but we have
failed because you will not act, you
will not co-operate; you will not b.e·
lleve. You have no. faith. And why:
Because you are bound in your minds
and hearts by religion. The priests
have held you down until no man daref
to call his soul his own. ( Appia use.)
You never will be men until you dar, '
stand up and look each other in the
face and see what may be accomplished."
They rose and hissed him and he
was rescued from the hall ]Jy the police
with very great difficulty and taken
back to his lodgings. From that day
·111s usefulness in Tilngland was passed.
Now ladies and gentlemen, I have not
the slightest desire to back these sentiments. As a student of history I am
convinced that no institution in the
world has clone so much for the uplift•.
Ing of humanity as Christianity. But
the Christian church has made many
mistak~s. time and time and time
again. ·'l'he teachings of that greatest
of all leaders, Jesus of Nazareth, have
been misa:pplied repeatedly, as you
know.· This man was willing· to bank
his credit and his life and his standing
upon that truth as he saw it; all glorJ
to lllm for his courageous utterance.
Of course every door of opportunity
closed to him; he was a marked man,
rt would be difficult for a man holding
these views today to keep on In any
ago,
He carrie to America and bought out
tjiat tract of land of'which we spoke a
while ago, 'I'he success of the Rappites
convinced him that he could succeed so
he bought the place and paid for it.
Now the man is ready and the place
Is ready for such an experiment as he
wished to make. I will make its story
brief. It was brief, It lasted only •two
years. First he needed a colony, He
went out through surrounding settl'ements and preached his doctrine of fellowship and good will. He had houses
already made, the land cleared . and
· ware-houses filled with food .for a year.
· Backed by this and his general reputation, the people came flocking. In
six weeks he had 1,000 people-the
flotsam and Jetsam of the frontier,
made up of all nationalities and all
f
�nmruwi
fY~~V'Q.V'i'~"~'w
lion of ti,at city, b1-iirgi11b
i,ilo
sy,,ij,dltfitlt
ti
'
,3'+
'
11111 a11 11 at11re than meets together elsewhere in tire New England metropolis:. A11.
1/ie 11 ,i 11 d which leads and really governs those gatherings,
A11d .as here, clearly
0
0
· .....
whicj;. co11c,e1ve,,1, QJAjtL.-tiJ.liMMfillligj,~IJJJ,;J11.,MUA,i.lJJ,,~W;CJ,iU.Uii!l11t1,J.l!!Jla[.!.li!l'11!lJ..W...uJ~~dlo~l.1i1id~a~r.:;.:it~-----•••••--
.,,,.,
we shall alf
,t1s a statett
1
ers' of the '
t "we must 1
i
\
n1eans ar:
Our Ameri
· heterogene< ·
t1s into man)
1ttlling us
the stronger
, our destru<
constitution
"Less and le
covers a wi
ow anything
\\' hich are ei
no commor
1er, but do 11
nts are wid,
,\ Baptists, (
Democrats, :
only for bi.
he housed m1
-h class is c,
e other. The
ferent streets
, do with eac
poor, natural\
10
aq
11·s been so a
to turn Ch
'hurch? Are
reach a comr
, are waitin~
ich is the we
r <lisintegrati;
.is
I
f Today Inad
,{
/
8
FORD HALL FOLKS
schools of thought, · Owen organized
them with great effo1•t and· went back
to England for supvlles. He sold out
all his ]lossesslons and nine months
later returned with what is known as
his "Boat,Joacl of knowledge," and a
great mass of 111aJJS,
Within a few clays, after he came
back, he broug,ht order out of chaos
but he could not maintain it. 'fhe people were idle and divided and, at the
encl of two years, Owen called them
together and told them he had tried an
ex])eriment but had found it could not'
succeed, From that clay the thing was
broken. He wandered out a discredited man.
Yet I maintain that ,he was a marvelous success, What did this man
stand .for? Something more than a
mere existence; som.ethlng more than
equal opportunity for man and woman,
What did he stand for? l<'lrst; for the
belief In human brotherhood, He believed that every llrnn shoulcl lend a
, helJJing hand to every other man, He
believed in absolutely equal OJJJJortunlty for every man, and woman everywhere in the world. He wo11ld give
women exactly the same opportunity
as to men, (Applause.) He believed
In the enlightenment of all our defectives,
He believed that crime was
.either ignorance or disease.
He believed in the enlightened treatmont of
all you,ng children, 'l'hese dreams he
never realized, 'fhey are dreams that
reach on into eternity,
Time is too
short for them, By urging these he
gave opportunity for their development, I was told that when I vl'Slted
New Harmony that I would find socialism l1atecl, I found just the contrary,
I found about 2,000 people there, It
was one of the neatest, cleanest and
handsomest towns I have ever seen, I
fonnd in this town a library with a
paid librarian, I found In addition to
this an art gallery of which any city
might be well proud of. In It was 300
handsome oil painting given by Murphy who came over amongst the first
settlers. I fonnd an 01iera house where
vast theatrical ]lerformances were •presented, I found three societies; one
for mutual insurance; another for mu•
tual benefit and another for town planning that. Owen started originally,
Moreover, Owen left children who were
of great service to the world, Now
man could not be blamed if his sons
to
went wrong but when a man has sons
and all of them go right there must be
something pretly good in that family,
Owen had four sons. They were all
educated men and all lived to do hlm
honor, By reason of them as well 'as
because of his Ideals his life stands out
a glorious success. (Applause.)
A FEW OF THE QUESTIONS.
Q, Is there any doubt that Robert
Owen would have been a Socialist?
A, Robert Owen's teachings are
proving to be .socialism, He ls recognized everywhere as one of the fathers
of our modern social science and so
ultimately would be one of the fathers
of socialism. If I may add a word I
would say that. Robert Owen would
have been a very sympathetic follower
of John Spargo, (Applause.)·
Q, How can we have strictly equal
opportunity and not have competition?
A, Read Spargo's book Practical
,I JJJ)licati.on of Socla.lisni.
You will
find it a most entertaining and charming treatment of the subject. He main•
talns that under socialism there would
be a very large degree of indlvjclual
freedom.
Q, Does the speaker think that Robert Owen's Ideal of equal opportunity
can be practised under our present system?
A. In some cases it can be practised
pretty well, Our present system gives
some peo11le remarkable freedom; on
the other hand the great mass of the
industrial workers·· today are chained
uncler conditions even less favorable,
than in 'Owen's time,
Q, Isn't the Church taking the same
posit1011 today that It took In the days
of Owen regarding Socialism, Woman's Suffrage, etc.?
A, No, I would like to see Woman's Suffrage brought in tomorrow.
And, It Is wrong to say that the Catholic church Is altogether opposed to it,
In regard to Socialism: I can bring
you Christian ministers on this ·plat•
form who will present a scheme of society that every extreme socialist In
this hall would accept,
Q, While J\'lr. Owen was in Indiana
did he try to seek any assistance from
the Legislature?
A, No, he had to r1111 It as an independent colony-lncle]lenclent of everything,
.
·ting element~
life.
·.~ny; the free
free press, wi
rnts which ha
icting elemen\
1te.
1
111d complex t
large centers:
nmunities, 11
chool, is still \
l'le with the I
under its mini
democratic i(
1cir lives are 1
Ying, And <
hich only mi~
\Ve read the j
:s, in religio1'
hose who tak~
other man's q
~81
,11 take a soc\
ly, or a yello1
,ogeneous in it
from the end ,
_ __
_
_
eel from withouniof11filioecl dowil-ITT anyt11111g re1au11g to we comn;10ffl'lul!~t'!'.J11J;1~!
_ 0 1)!1•t1o?1
be simply a forum for the atrlng of views.
someth111g (
others, b ut t Iiey mus t b e evo Ive d
'
k'
£ speecI1es, ..;; It mus t no t b e.
'.
,,
'
• h
k
t th··
more than a platform for the ma 111g o
ple must tog et er wor ou
eir
•
f
11 I -. b t. It
t b ' ·
confined to the spiritual couventt.ons o . any. r··e. g· Qn., .:·u . mus e..
..
place in all this broad land wl~ere
shot through and through with moral and llplrltual purpose, To :
talk over in friendly spirit our . this end it must
be either a lyceum or a· ae
, . ,,
111111011
I
a
'"!~muliFoe'
I
1/
1
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection 1885-2011 (MS114)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1885-2011
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Meyers, Arthur S.
Description
An account of the resource
The collection contains 9 boxes of Arthur S. Meyers' research files related to his book, <em>Democracy in the Making: the Open Forum Movement</em>. The book, published in 2012, chronicles the history of the nationwide open forum movement, including the role of the Ford Hall Forum. The collection contains photocopies of letters, articles, and programs related to open forums and the movement’s proponents such as George W. Coleman and Mary Caroline Crawford. <br /><br />A <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/researchguides/12/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">finding aid</a> is available which describes and inventories this collection. Digital files are available at: <a href="https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/">https://dc.suffolk.edu/fhf-docs/</a>
Language
A language of the resource
English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil society -- United States -- History
Coleman, George W. (George William), 1867-
Crawford, Mary Caroline
Democracy -- United States -- History
Meyers, Arthur S
Political culture -- United States -- History
Political participation -- United States -- History
Relation
A related resource
See also, the Ford Hall Forum Collection (MS113), Suffolk University
Document
A resource containing textual data. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ms-0206
Title
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Ford Hall Forum Folks newsletter, vol. 1, no. 12, 03/16/1913
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1913
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Description
An account of the resource
Featured: William Hard
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Meyers Open Forum Collection, 1885-2011 (MS114)
MS 114, Folder: 53
Type
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Text
Documents
Format
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PDF
Language
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English
Subject
The topic of the resource
Ford Hall Forum
Forums (Discussion and debate)
Rights
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Copyright Suffolk University. This item is made available for research and educational purposes by the Moakley Archive & Institute. Prior permission is required for any commercial use.
Relation
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<p>View the <a href="https://www.suffolk.edu/-/media/suffolk/documents/about/moakley-archive-and-institute/collections/ms114_findingaid_pdftxt.pdf?la=en&hash=486EEBE8C7ED9B1E7B1E8400F934ED64828945AC">finding aid to the Arthur S. Meyers Open Forum Collection (MS 114)</a> for more information (PDF).</p>
<p></p>
Ford Hall Forum
Lectures